Literature

"If you want 1 euro each, no problem,but just take 500 pupae." (C)
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Eh no my dear fellow! According to this logic you will be kind enough to buy 10 books instead of one but cheaper!
You're outweighing YOUR sales problems on me in this case. But you deny the same opportunity to others. Your arguments are for morons.
Toropov by the way also gives books and what?

Does Roman agree to sell wholesale goods cheaper?

The topic has become independent,so I will write again
The price of the book is somewhat inflated.This does not mean that I will starve,etc.to buy it.No, my savings are quite sufficient to buy it.
But how many books do you buy from the author?In this case, it's just a gift to take for 129 and not for 200 euros.But even this price cuts off a large percentage of people.The author objects to the scans,but at his own cost pushes for piracy.

Am I whining about prices???Hm..I didn't notice it behind me.There are books that I will buy,and there are books that I will not buy,and the price in this case is the last thing.
And you don't have to go far-I bought several books at the same congress.And for 100 euros, too.About morpho.And if the book cost 200 euros, I would have bought it too.

This post was edited by taler - 03.11.2009 13: 22

Voooo here you just started measuring pussies as a colleague said.
In this case, with a novel. This is his right to sell or not to sell cheaper.
The point is not in the possibility of increasing the circulation, but in the RISK associated with this.
After all, you thaler agreed to reduce the price only AFTER I ordered a large batch. Who gives such guarantees to book authors in terms of sales? I'm talking about this sobsno...
I just showed you the principle on your own example. I have to add more necha to the question and I don't want to react to reflections and excuses...

Well, if you touched aleksanorov, then I note-the price of the pupa is 15-25 raccoons Sushnyak and even more expensive.So even without you, everything is expanded.6 -10 euros I saw that it is quite acceptable, because people buy. If you want 1 euro each, no problem,but just take 500 pupae.
So much for earning money on volumes.

This is you well done, I suspected from the very beginning that your initial statement directly on the forum about scanning, etc. was a little hasty (which is why I had to argue with those who had already attacked what they considered expensive), and did not interpret it against you personally. Moreover, I have heard only positive things about you from those who were present at the congress.

But, unfortunately, in publishing products, such a ratio of cheapening with an increase in circulation is simply objectively impossible. Good printing quality books (and let's not hand over good quality anyway) do not pupate themselves, there is not enough free food, there are huge expenses that are also dictated by someone next, you can't collect paper and paint on umbrella stores, and so on. The connection is essentially the same, only proportions other services: there you will be happy to sell (yes, and specially printed for you,) God forbid twenty percent (and not at times!) it's cheaper if you also take 500 books.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 03.11.2009 13: 59

Voooo here you just started measuring pussies as a colleague said.
In this case, with a novel. This is his right to sell or not to sell cheaper.
The point is not in the possibility of increasing the circulation, but in the RISK associated with this.
After all, you thaler agreed to reduce the price only AFTER I ordered a large batch. Who gives such guarantees to book authors in terms of sales? I'm talking about this sobsno...
I just showed you the principle on your own example. I have to add more necha to the question and I don't want to react to reflections and excuses...

Are you trying to make me look bad?I don't think you can do it.In addition to demagoguery and insults, I already see slander.You know perfectly well that my price is reduced by more than 50%,but nevertheless, you are trying to throw mud at me by talking about 1 euro.The price of 1 euro came from you,the party was mentioned later
About the risk I also don't understand-find out the clientele and print it.However, you know that the Novel is co-authored and the circulation is clearly not 10 copies.I just want to ask-and you,dear A. Y. Elez, Babochnik, entomolog-did you order this book?Or do you just want to practice your languages?Will you be one of those people who will wait for a cheaper book or even make do with scans?

This post was edited by taler - 03.11.2009 13: 43

The author objects to the scans,but at his own cost pushes for piracy.

This has already been discussed, dear T. taler. Here-either allowed or not allowed. If it is allowed, then piracy is "pushed" not by the current supposedly high price,but in general any price higher than the cost of pirating scans. Both authors and publishers are then obviously in the toilet, because they must sell books at a price slightly higher than the price of a sidyuk. If there is no control and compulsion, then many people will not pay a penny for bus travel. Why even pay a penny when you don't have to pay? So the main thing is not in "pushing" (I repeat, many people have already talked about this here), but in the possibility of showing cookies to the copyright holder with impunity by illegal copying. The price of sausage has long been "pushing" me to break into a sausage shop, but I somehow tolerate it and don't yell: listen, but for what audience do you, infestations, publish this sausage?! increase the circulation at least a million times, I don't mind, and reduce prices at least three times! and so on. Yell stupidly, and if you crack - they will be tied up. And with the scan-it seems that they will not be tied up, the prison is still not included in the cost of counterfeit scanning, so why not say that we are very much "pushed" to lawlessness. And the sausage will be more necessary than any determinant...

Thaler trying to translate everything into personalities doesn't make sense...
Believe me, I deeply appreciate your personal experience, as well as that of all other panelists. I'm just giving you my thoughts on the topic.
Examples come up (in this case, you're a taller example)
I will repeat once again - there is nothing personal in my posts. I don't see any point in developing the discussion further in this vein. It is much more interesting to discuss the trends and causes of this or that, rather than the personal involvement of individuals in this or that phenomenon.

No, I don't agree-I don't want to do piracy either.And I try not to do it.Especially scanning a friend's book for the sake of other friends.
There are books by Nekrutenko at home-there is a person who wants to buy them(the price is nonsense), but I haven't scanned the books yet.The ad is hanging.
You know what most often leads to piracy in this area of activity.Price or small print run.But it's one thing that you can't find a book,and absolutely another is its price.

However, you know that the Novel is co-authored and the circulation is clearly not 10 copies.I just want to ask-and you,dear A. Y. Elez, Babochnik, entomolog-did you order this book?Or do you just want to practice your languages?Will you be one of those people who will wait for a cheaper book or even make do with scans?

I don't have any scans from the latest literature (except for those that are already hanging on the web), and I don't distribute such scans myself. Only in those rare cases when you give something to very few friends from such a foreign country that the author will definitely not be undermined by this market. There are no authors who would be even slightly offended by me for undermining the market. I do not polemicize with "languages to show off", I try to write more meaningfully, but I am not used to leaving what I consider erroneous without attention, I try to react to the best of my ability. As for the books of t. Yakovlev and his comrades, I don't know yet how I will deal with the money. But I really hope to push myself and order. I am generally a big scribe, I live like in a library, all my friends know this, I personally scan as a genre is acceptable only as the last paliative, when a live book is such an antique that it is already impossible or almost impossible to get it. Were you going to sponsor me and the Babochnik from Yakovlev's books , or are you asking me "just to use your tongue"?

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 03.11.2009 14: 10

To catch up with Ailez (by the way, again-respect).
The very presence of law enforcement agencies and legal structures also speaks about the essence of this community and the primacy of values in it. If an individual needs a restraining and controlling system, then it is obvious that this is not quite a person. For such cadres, jurisprudence replaces Conscience. Their standard reaction is "everyone has their own conscience and truth"(C).

No, dear A. Y. Elez, I wasn't going to.And if you had contacted me,I would have referred you to the author.But if you had asked for a scan after that, you would have done it.Of course, also after talking to Roman beforehand.

"Of course, also after talking to Roman beforehand." (C)
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and here it is-in a human way.

"Of course, also after talking to Roman in advance." (C)
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but this is in ludyachy.

Once again, please do not associate me with you.From my posts, you can clearly see what this is about.And what's the big deal if I ask a person(friend) who has helped me more than once to scan a book and send the scan to a specific person for such and such a reason?At most, he will ask me to do it later and also give a number of reasons that I will listen to.

Uh, and here we go. Colleagues, an insult is not everything that is offensive or offensive to someone. The language can be both rude and polite, but it is impossible to force politeness. I myself am not a fan of the rough genre, but I know from my own experience that they" push " sometimes, and the rough genre is not such a crime, especially in our days, as counterfeit (which, as they say here, is also "pushed", and this" pushing " goes for some reason-if, of course, not canceled already , - as an excuse). When a person is rude to me,I can finish him off with a very polite argumentation on the merits of the issue so that all the rudeness of the opponent will only go to his own shame. Keep to the limits, ignore it altogether as a last resort, this is a win-win option. And salty terminology (there is no profanity yet!), if someone did not hold back, we will tolerate it, we will not turn it into a big problem, if we can object on the merits.

Very much in parentheses: slander is, strictly speaking, a statement that attributes to someone a specific (discrediting from the point of view of the law and public morality, and we ourselves know its current market - based one) act, and not inciting questions, etc. Slander is not the same as just offensive remarks, here it is already a matter of our relations and the level of controversy. In general, I agree with Dmitry ("let's live together"), who, however, did not put his recommendation in quotation marks, which means that he got it right from Leopold the cat...

While I was writing, the post, I see, is outdated, everything is already in order.



This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 03.11.2009 14: 27

dyk "in a human way" is pralna and means well. That's why I reacted like this...because it seems to me that this is a decent way out in some situations. If the author is not against the scan in a particular case, then who can be against it?

Lads! Stop playing games!
Let's slap a glass for world peace instead!
There are not so many of us here to be divided into red and white. It's not worth it, believe me.

P. S. Ksta, Thaler, I didn't buy the book. And I won't buy it. Because I don't need it yet. And as a decoration of the bookshelf is expensive, that is what it is.

Therefore, daragoy thaler in order not to breed demagoguery, start selling the Alexanor pupa not for 6 raccoons but for 1, just expand sales (the type is in demand - they will buy it!). For some reason, you do not do this, but in general you demand this from the authors of books. Although the publication of the book is also difficult, as is the cultivation of caterpillars.

Personally, I collected both pupae and butterflies from Thaler at the congress just in exchange for the usual material from the middle lane, which does not mean that he wants to extract super-profits from poor entomologists.
And you (Babochnik) do not want to discount your material 6 times? You're a merchant, too, aren't you?"I would buy a batch.

dyk "in a human way" is pralna and means well. That's why I reacted like this...because it seems to me that this is a decent way out in some situations. If the author is not against the scan in a particular case, then who can be against it?

The way out is something else.Make sure that the wolves are whole and the sheep are fed.(On purpose-so that no one would think of themselves)
And negotiations for a scan are exactly "some situation"

Well, although I'm not a merchant, I sell sometimes. And not once I do not want to discount 6 times.
Because I set the price according to my own costs, without denying the same opportunity to anyone. If you don't understand why I wrote what I wrote to thaler, then whose problems do you think it is? By the way, I never bargain anywhere... although I sometimes lower my prices at the request of the buyer. If I think this is possible.

Thaler, it is not in our power to change the system in which we are located - it is stronger than us and we have been building it for thousands of years... this is a fact and it is desirable to understand it...
it's just that we can respond appropriately to what's happening in it. I call for this.
The wolves are fed and the sheep are whole-utopia. Objectively, no one will take risks, even rich people (there are probably exceptions, but they are not a system). And this has to be reckoned with.

Making entomology a closed elite club is also not necessary!

If by" entomology "you mean science, then, indeed, it is not necessary to" do", because everything was" done " at the time of its institutionalization as a science. Look at the circulation of, for example, the Entomological Review (or the Eurasian Entomological Journal) – it is only 2 times less than the circulation of the Bulletin of the Imperial Society of Naturalists a hundred years ago - 386 copies (250 copies). - acc.). At the same time, part of the circulation goes out of Russia for exchange, for example. I will note that then do not "chip", the circulation varies from number to number. I don't say anything about the subscription price at all... they won't understand, sir.
But if you, suddenly, by "entomology" mean a virtual community of insect collectors, then even then, do not "make an elite club", because this will be unproductive doing (i.e., it will not work).

I just want to ask-and you,dear A. Y. Elez, Babochnik, entomolog-did you order this book?Or do you just want to practice your languages?

I also want to ask: "Are you subscribed to these (for example, see above) magazines? Or you just... talk about an elite club"? – but I won't ask, because this is already a personal transition. This is us-the snow is knee-deep, and only "white" flies fly, which would not be "trendet" (the season is over), but you, dear taler, natural flies fly, and what is trendet, go and catch!

If by" entomology "you mean science, then, indeed, it is not necessary to" do", because everything was" done " at the time of its institutionalization as a science. Look at the circulation of, for example, the Entomological Review (or the Eurasian Entomological Journal) – it is only 2 times less than the circulation of the Bulletin of the Imperial Society of Naturalists a hundred years ago - 386 copies (250 copies). - acc.). At the same time, part of the circulation goes out of Russia for exchange, for example. I will note that then do not "chip", the circulation varies from number to number. I don't say anything about the subscription price at all... they won't understand, sir.
But if you, suddenly, by "entomology" mean a virtual community of insect collectors, then even then, do not "make an elite club", because this will be unproductive doing (i.e., it will not work).

Alas, this is true, a complete nightmare. The magazine inside is polygraphically simple, there is nothing to say about the cover, the circulation is scanty, but the price is just hell. This is truly beyond comprehension. And Nauka publishes 100-volume Tolstoy (or rather, it rushed to publish, before the crisis), volumes in beautiful embossed bindings, the circulation, however, no longer reaches the circulation of Fyodor's Apostol in 1564 (they started exactly with this-1500 copies), and prices are much lower than on the EO. I understand that the old man left his works to be published free of charge, and the terms of rights have long expired, and Japanese sponsors, but does EA really pay huge royalties to authors? That's really cut off scientists so cut off...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 03.11.2009 15: 18

I also want to ask: "Are you subscribed to these (for example, see above) magazines? Or you just... talk about an elite club"? – but I won't ask, because this is already a personal transition. This is us-the snow is knee-deep, and only "white" flies fly, which would not be "trendet" (the season is over), but you, dear taler, natural flies fly, and what is trendet, go and catch!

No, it's not signed.And I don't think I'll sign up.Subscribe to a magazine that would poke everyone that I am an EO subscriber -this is not my thing.This site,the site of Stas and the Insect Expert, and other sources of information are quite enough for me.Moreover, I am categorically against "Elite Clubs", "Non-elite clubs", and "Poor Entomologists 'Club".
And we are not 100% virtual, unlike other forums.

About the" stinginess " of Roman Yakovlev.We are not talking about any stinginess.I refer to Roman as the only author(book) on this forum so far.I can bring in a few other authors I know.
Of course,the Novel must be present in this topic and make its own remarks.

it is ridiculous to speak in relation to a society for which the main thing is not to feed and provide people, but to make a profit <...> they prefer not to reduce prices below the level of rare "sales", but to destroy products during such periods, crush, drown, etc. < ... > How can you talk about their mentality "making money on volumes"... If in recent decades there has been less pressure and heating (of overproduced goods), it is only because for several decades a new niche has been created for dumping surpluses - in the place of the former socialist system.

This is not the best example of the Soviet ever-memorable Agitprop, it would be possible not to react, if not for a number of circumstances:
1) he wanders from topic to topic (serving as a kind of business card of the author of replicas);
2) enthusiastic shouts: "Hurrah!" - and caps flying up-those who have an interest in such... read;
3) silence (lambs, like) of those who are "there" (at the evil ones bourgeois uncles) was (or remains).
Dear A. Y. Elez, it seems that the last time you were "there" was about 80 years ago . I understand, of course, that if you do not sleep regularly at night, then the mind, all-one, will take its course in some night-fall asleep. And the " dream of reason "(see Goya's etching "The Dream of Reason gives birth to monsters" - sheet 43 from the Caprichos series) will give rise to the" monster "of capitalism" oblo, mischievously, stozevno and laia " ... "destroying" steamboats, burning books, "crushing, drowning" (as you put it)…
Come on, wake up! You dreamed it, your dream is terrible. It happens...
If you don't believe me, ask taler, for example, if their "products" ("steam cars") are being destroyed"there". But I warn you, do not rush with your: "I told you so!", if you hear an affirmative answer from taler, listen to his remark to the end. By saying, " Yes. Car harness", - taler will add: "The Arabs are burning." (N'dyk they not only burn in Israel, - I will add, in my turn, I, - they also burn in France...). Vps taler'u should be clarified, "decent" (the term in this context - not mine, I note, and Obama's opponent in the election) people burn?
As a matter of fact (after all, the topic is about books), you, dear A. Y. Elez, are going from a sore head to a healthy one: books were destroyed not under "capitalism", but under "socialism". Take even "national socialism" (literally burned at the stake, making it public), even the" Juche " socialism of the North. Korea, at least "Soviet". In the latter case, you don't know, they first destroyed the "surplus" of ideologically alien pre-revolutionary literature (twisting "goat legs", melting "bourgeoisie"), then destroyed the books of "enemies of the people" (not only books, but also authors). Even in the dreadful dream, you can hardly imagine the shelves of the Soviet library bursting with books by Trotsky, for example, whose works were replicated at one time no less diligently than later works by Lenin-Stalin-Brezhnev - where did this huge volume of his pamphlets go? Please note that toilet paper was not produced in the USSR at that time.
Finally, "developed socialism" drowned in the waters of this ocean of millions of copies of Lenin and others. "classics" (millions of copies of textbooks, monographs, journals on "scientific communism", "scientific" atheism, etc. can even be ignored). So far, all the everests of such waste paper have not been disposed of (the cardboard industry, which has a fair share of raw materials made up of the "works" of the "classics" of "scientific communism", can not cope), there is work for more than one decade.
So where is it – the "overproduction crisis" of books (we didn't forget about the topic) – "there" or "here"?
Soviet propagandists spoke about "tam" (the bourgeois world) to the average person "sitting on a leash", and knew about " tam "from the newspaper" Pravda "(double quotes are appropriate here) and the magazine"Ogonyok". Especially touching is the phrase (with which I began quoting your post) about a society "for which the main thing is not to feed and provide people, but to make a profit." You are talking about the "bourgeois" society, presumably (falling asleep over the page of Pravda), contrasting it with the society of "developed socialism", which"fed" people (not meat!) ... books of "classics of Leninism" until ... (nausea, - as a soft version of the word) and "provided" each person with more than one hundred copies (if you divide the total circulation by the number of inhabitants of the "land of Soviets").

A self-portrait?

..
1) he wanders from topic to topic [turning them into t u peaks-Papaver] ...
2) enthusiastic shouts: "Hurrah!" - and caps flying up, - those who have an interest in such... read...
... (see Goya's etching "The Dream of reason gives birth to monsters" - sheet 43 from the Caprichos series)

This post was edited by Papaver - 04.11.2009 13: 55

I xs about freebies.... there is money to buy! no -save up and buy! At the beginning of the year, I got the Lampert atlas for a bubble ... what a FREEBIE!!!

I haven't logged in to the forum in three days. I am currently writing a book about Kazakhstan, and I feel the pleasant ripples of the book market. Therefore, I don't have time for remarks, as Pasha Lutsky advised. I'll put all your money in my pocket.

And if you are serious, I went in, read it and said... mother of God...

It did get there; the publishers must have overlooked it. Available in the following major libraries in the United States alone::

Well, at least by half past one in the morning "got it" and then-okay. The trouble, however, is that it didn't get "what" it should have.
Dear A. J. Elez, what did you want to say? have you already forgotten? Let me remind you.
To yours: "A book, it can be either commercial or non-commercial. However, I did not come across the second type under capitalism, "I gave an example of a" non-commercial " publication. "I didn't get caught" is not an argument. They would say, " Thank you! Now I'll know, " and the conversation is over.
And so… Slovo-za-slavo…
The list of SASS libraries (which have this book) does not mean anything, because this entire list, with the only (!) exception, is a list of corporate libraries. My judgment was as follows: the" profane "are limited in their ability to access"scientific works". Did you refute it with your list of libraries? No. A person "from the street" cannot become a reader of the university library (what universities do you list there?)
You are free to refer to the Web, where you got information about this book. But even in this case, such a link is not an argument. For! Science is a system of knowledge, not fragmentary knowledge, twitched here and there..
There is such a database-J-Store. It contains all (!) articles of" scientific " (and even semi-scientific in a certain field of science, of course) journals of the XX century (1901-2000) in .pdf format (mainly in English). Access to it is beyond the power of a private individual (Abramovich doesn't count), but not every corporation. If you are an intern, "guest", or research something, for example, at the University of Seattle, Chicago (I don't say anything about famous universities), then go to the J-Store (in a couple of hours, you can download the information for "the rest of your life"). But, if you "flew" to some "un-tesko" there (there are no less of them in the SASS than in modern Russia with its" univesity " of Sewerage, Cooperation, etc. then - " hello! "(you are left without the opportunity to get information). About the person "from the street "(read, "private" collector) - I'm silent va-ashche...
Was it worth sitting at the computer all night?
But, I repeat, science does not "care" who is in power (the authorities change, knowledge remains): capitalists or socialists; it will equally insulate itself from" capitalist "and" socialist " laymen.
In order not to be unfounded, I will give you another example (I apologize in advance for your sleepless night on the Web in search of... what?). "Communist" science has protected itself from "profane people" in libraries, in particular (we don't need print runs now) by a network of "Special Storage" departments (so - called "special hoards") and departments of literature "For official use". It was possible to get a book in the "special guard" (as well as in the "chipboard" department) only to those who had a motivated appeal to the director of the library on the official letterhead of the institution (or if there was a stamp) on behalf of the head of the institution (deputies and "Acting" did not count).'I don't think it's necessary to explain this (at least in the "special countries" there was a bourgeois "philosophy"). But, here are the "chipboard"departments... What was hidden (the possibility of access was strictly limited) from the "people"? You won't believe it...
In my hands (please leave your "quotes" alone ) collection "Scientific and methodological notes". It was published by the Main Directorate for Nature Reserves, Zoos and Zoo Gardens of the Council of People's Commissars of the RSFSR. The contents of the article include: On the fauna of parasitic mouflon worms in the Crimea; On the history of forests in the Caucasus Nature Reserve; Chemical control of the great pine bast-eater; On roe deer feeding in the Ilmen Reserve; On the biology of the Larra anathema wasp; New methods of accounting for ermine; and other similar ones. But the collection is marked "For official use". I am, of course, annoyed that the biology of the wasp was kept secret from me (see photo). And why?

This post was edited by Justus - 04.11.2009 20: 39

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In my hands (please leave your "quotes" alone ) collection "Scientific and methodological notes"... the collection is marked "For official use". I am, of course, annoyed that the biology of the wasp was kept secret from me (see photo). And why?

It is better to ask the person who put the bar, if again it is not a question for the sake of the question. At that time, the ideologically unacceptable was labeled, and what was of defense importance, and what could advance science in other countries at the expense of the state budget of the USSR, and you never know what else. Formally, there was no censorship, but the department for the protection of state secrets in the press. Grifovali and chohom entire series forward, if it was not excluded that it may contain materials that are subject to restricted access. How do you order the odd-numbered volumes of the Proceedings of the Watermelon-Growing Technical School to be thrown out for general use, so that any student (not to mention foreign justuses) starts gossiping: where did the Soviet deputies hide the even-numbered volumes?

I can't pick up all the empty barrels you're free to roll out here. Play with them yourself. It is enough for me that I have exposed your previous "example", which turned out to be both the wrong example and the wrong example. If you hope to prove with your stamped title pages that such "fencing off" is the "rule" for scientific publishing, not the exception, then you will not prove it to yourself either. I am sure that you also have orders of magnitude more scientific publications without "fences" at home. I don't throw in the title pages of much more typical unpublished books, and you show us rarities that only prove what we already know. We have long understood that you have a good home library, which in itself deserves respect, because good libraries are not collected without difficulty and not without understanding. But, in any case, your "wasp" was not branded because they were afraid to desecrate the holy osovedenie by the hands of profane people. This "mentality" was completely alien to Soviet policy in the field of science. Otherwise, after the orphanage, people like Dubinin and Trapeznikov would naturally end up in prison, and not in academics.

In my last message, I only responded to what you said at the time. You didn't show us the book "for private circulation" to prove that any vulture means a restriction (no one has ever argued with this), but to illustrate the thesis that such a restriction is a "rule". It was with the last thesis that I argued, and your example flew out even you understood where. And it is not necessary to deceive now that your "judgment" was reduced to the following: "profane people" are limited in their access to "scientific works"." If it "boiled down" to this (and not to fables about the "rule"), who would argue with you? What is there in our world that is limitless, except substance and its attributes? Everything is limited, including, of course, the access of lay people to literature. But what do we do with this subtle observation? After all, statistically, a scientist is much more limited by such vultures than a layman. After all, the layman does not demand branded literature to the same extent as the scientist. And even a scientist could not receive literature with departmental labels, including "Not subject to sale", "Secret" and even "For official use", in a special storage facility by a simple request from the place of work, unless he worked in the publishing department and did not sit in its library. In the 13th department of Leninka, for example, the literature "DSP", as well as "Sent according to a special list" (Progress Publishing house, before that "Foreign Literature"), was not issued even to scientists with certificates of work on the relevant topic. A special attitude was required - to work with the "DSP" literature, and with other types of books, books were generally issued only after each specific request was considered by the management of the storage institution. I'm not even talking about the "two crosses" stamp, but even the progressive " Sent on a special list "even scientists, except for those included in this list (and there were enough" laymen " in the list, and encyclopedic laymen, but having positions), did not see even in the catalogs of special storage. These publications didn't seem to exist. Sometimes this not only provided an ideological line, but also resolved the issue of familiarizing at least some specialists with the publication without "highlighting" it and without having to pay royalties to foreign authors (this is for cases of "Progress"). So those exceptions that I have already mentioned also affected scientists, God forbid, I had to experience this firsthand, and it was in my specialty. For example, the progressive translation of the Italian "Storia del marxismo" (5 vols.) was not reflected in any special countries in the catalog. There are many examples; if I start flaunting vultures from my library, even yours will gasp. But the non-branded one is incomparably more. That's why I didn't argue with the fact that the vulture is not a rule, and even in general always means access restriction, but argued with the fact that such a restriction was itself a "rule". So what's the point of throwing title pages around? Examples are not statistics.

And that ornithological book from under your previous title page did not get into all district and housing department libraries not because of the stamp, which itself was obviously secondary, but because of the circulation. There is also a lot of non-branded literature (scientific and not only) that is not even available in the Library of Congress. Libraries aren't made of rubber, and neither are print runs. And vultures don't do much statistical weather here. Access is restricted (try an American scientist to find a Soviet "chipboard" in his library - but no "mentality" will help), and who argued with this? But this value of the vulture does not fit into any comparison with the restrictive value of the circulation (in the complete absence of vultures), because of which even the most learned scientist could not sometimes get the necessary book for work, which "interested people"had already snapped up. It was, we remember.

I do not intend to pay special attention to the comparison of social systems (outside the narrowly thematic need), indignation over the use of the suffix "izm" in the name of concepts, etc. We are already moving away from the topic of prices when discussing just book publishing policy.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 05.11.2009 01: 05

Dear A. Y. Elez, it seems that the last time you were "there" was about 80 years ago .

I had many conversations with those who lived "there" and arrived here less than 80 hours earlier; they even knew Western publishing plans in their specialty worse than I did, who at one time managed to get books from the West that were not yet listed even in Western catalogues. It may have been bad luck with the interviewees, although they were not the ones who answered the question: "How do you like Faulkner?" The answer is "How much horsepower does it have?" It's just that being "there" is still good enough for finger-pinning, and in the issue of pricing in book publishing, as I see, it doesn't help much. One can travel all over the planet, but at the same time know it only from the speeches of Novodvorskaya, that is, not see beyond one's own nose, not read either pre-Marxist or modern bourgeois economic literature, and think that the thesis about profit-making as the main goal of capitalist production was invented by damned Marxists. This is narrowness, so narrowness; and you can't put it down to any vultures...

"I do not intend to pay special attention to the comparison of social systems (outside the narrowly thematic need), indignation over the use of the suffix" izm " in the name of concepts, etc. We are already moving away from the topic of prices when discussing just book publishing policy. "(copyright-A. Y. Elez)
"I do not intend to pay special attention to indignation < ... >" However, if this does not make you uncomfortable (Long live! the great and mighty "Russian language"!)... then do not fuck with him ... Although, you still have midnight has not come… And it's time for me to go to sleep... There will be a day, and there will be new words...

"I do not intend to pay special attention to indignation<...>"

Yes, to the indignation expressed in your message and specifically discussed which the topic does not allow. Everything is quite clear. Someone, of course, who is able to understand texts that are not stuffed with foolishness.

To argue with you is to box in an uncharacteristic weight class

It's not just us who can see it here.

Well, I can at least prove Lem Sheppard, can't I? The trouble is. that my "baba" is an economist, and not some kind of Soviet-Leninist one...

I can only sympathize with you as a bachelor in your misfortune, but I do not intend to compete with you any longer on the simple question of the main goal of capitalist production. Moreover, such general economic issues are usually not solved at the level of economics textbooks. This is either political economy (not so fashionable in the period of reaction), or real life, which is better to ask about not in those countries where its "rules" are well fattened. Enough has already been said about this here: they eat better on raspberries than off them. To what extent the neocolonial transfer of resources refutes Ma Sheppard's lemma, to what extent it helps to understand the vital need of these, as you call them in the old Soviet style, SASS to grab not only the Middle East, but sometimes every Panama and Grenada, determine for yourself. Perhaps this is due to the great capacity for independent - not to say crisis-free-economic development? And not for the sake of increasing profits in the long run? Or will they never learn the equations from your wife's textbooks? Or did she put such a stamp on them that even American politicians can't get them?

In general, in this matter, I am quite ready to leave you to your own intellectual evolution, explain either domestic pricing policy in isolation from neo-colonialism, from economic and other interventions, or these latter-with equations, and I have already checked your title page once for lice. And I am afraid to approach Sheppard's lemma now, even if it would be necessary when, because I see how far it leads people away from the truth, which by referring to lemmas, to " weak?" and the poor marital status can not be refuted and not proved. So for the next sweepstakes, count on someone to get married. Even for A. Y. Elez, there is a limit to which he can make his colleagues laugh with his serious attitude to such performances as yours.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 05.11.2009 01: 56

Wow.... skok was beaten up.
I've written a lot of books, so I'll just summarize my point of view and leave this topic, because to argue with people who have a glimmer of hope in their hearts that if they write books, but perhaps their money invested in their expeditions will fight back, and so on, their colleagues will pay their research interests are useless.

There is a market price, it should take into account the capabilities of the AVERAGE buyer, if the seller does not want to take into account - scans will appear at a lower price.
A person who puts up scientific books for 5500 should be prepared for this and perceive it as an ordinary phenomenon, or make books cheaper. No one will bother with a copy if they can afford the original.

The author of the book (and his supporters) does not and cannot have any moral right to condemn users of scans. The author himself, having once sold his work to a publisher and lost the rights to it, continues to sell it to other buyers, depriving the publisher of part of the profit. In addition, such trade violates a number of our laws. So the snout itself is in the fluff. With this approach, a person in principle should not care who besides him "does not do well" with a foreign publishing house, and not consider himself "Caesar's wife", and the rest-freeloaders. Although I can guess that such a question worries only as long as the author has not sold out the author's copies and only against the background of those fabrications that if the publisher does not sell out the circulation, it will not buy the next work from him, and in general, he himself sometimes used both programs and disks without really caring about how much they are original, as long as the quality is good.

Cases of using copies were initiated in our country and the perpetrators were safely acquitted, and after the highest officials of the state said about the case of a teacher using copies of Windows "Bullshit", such cases are probably not solved. No one will bother with a scientist who needs a book for work that is offered for sale at the price of a luxury item, because he made a scan, taking the book from a more affluent non-scientist.

Only you did not notice that the purpose was interpreted in different ways-either as functional from the properties of the thing, or as conditioned by the price. Why and who turns out to be a beggar-gossip with someone else. And the fact is that there are no such properties of an expensive car with the same functions as a car that would make it objectively unnecessary for any rich or poor person. That's where the dog is buried. And to reduce it again to a mixture of different examples, to a fake analogy, is your old technique. Compare not an asphalt limousine with a hard worker for mountain roads, but either two asphalt limousines that are different in price, or two SUVs that are different in price for mountains. And you will understand that you can drive up to the office, and fly through the mountains at a higher price and at a lower price, and there is no such poor guy who would not be suitable for an expensive option. It's just a matter of who has what money. Actually, you let it slip about "status"yourself. And what is the capitalist's interest in this "status"? By itself? As if not so. All other things being equal (i.e., given that cars are functionally similar), "status" is the father of solvency, and prices are "sharpened" for it.

Actually, it was your idea to talk about beggars. You talk about cars like a horseless person.
My grandfather had a Lincoln Continental. So, when my grandfather went out for mushrooms, on a country road, he dropped everyone out of the car and drove it slowly and light, because the landing of the car is too low for the Russian country road. On the other hand, there is a Nissan pickup truck, which basically doesn't give a damn about the deadness of the road, which fits a lot of equipment, but which is not used for business meetings, even in the center of Moscow they don't meet. And which, by the way, stands as a pickup truck, not as a limousine. This is about more expensive and cheaper. If a person is ready to stomp in the mountains on foot skinny on his equipment, then he can take more expensive thinking about a higher status. But is it justified in this case? It's the same with books. A large and expensive book, it is not yet a book that is convenient to work with.
In this case, we are offered a Nissan hard worker (determinant) at the price of an executive limousine and in the design of an executive limousine (format, gold embossing, dust jacket).

This is not the first, but the last time I have answered this purely ideological story (with a kilometer-long beard), which is a shame to relay these days. If you don't want to hear arguments, you don't have to, and you're getting tired of arguing with spells.

The ratio of wages and prices among them is not determined by the mentality that fell out of nowhere after the well-known previous history of the most expansionist economic system in the world, the creator of the world's colonial system. The mentality itself only reflects the economic possibilities of this system. And if, for example, the economic elite of the capitalist world (not so many countries) allows itself not to have a proletariat at home, this does not mean that it does not exist in the system as a whole at all. It's just that now your wage slave has been taken out of the metropolis and is not visible to those ignoramuses who can only understand a single state under the capitalist system. There are plenty of ways of neo-colonial robbery, if you don't believe it, read the literature, I don't have the strength to educate myself on such clear things here. With such an external "subsidy", it would be possible to distribute books (and not only books) for free. Just God forbid somewhere in Bhopal, India (especially twenty years ago) to praise the mentality, according to which only in the part of "zarubezh" that is visible to you, they can not inflate prices: they remember how many citizens (including children) died at the end of the last century at the Union Carbide plant sticking out of them, there you will be torn apart for apologizing for the Western pricing policy (paid for by their lives). And in this situation - almost the entire "third world". And without it, there is no capitalism and in general, with all its mentalities. Their "mentality" doesn't care where their good salaries come from, as long as they have them. Similarly, the wives of Nazi soldiers once did not worry about the joy with which parcels from their husbands come to them from the front with warm socks, women's underwear and other household items. Just received and enjoyed, that's the whole mentality. But - for the time being; and then the course of the war has already given them brains and adjusted their mentality, and it went: "Oh, we didn't know that our husbands were animals and looters, we didn't know that we had Auschwitz" and so on.Today we again have the same mentality. But experts in the global economy know where high wages actually come from in some parts of the capitalist system. If, relatively speaking, ten percent of the world's population consumes more than half of the world's resources, then it is not fair to be surprised at the salaries of this minority and write them off to a noble (and not to a bastard who does not care about the source of his grub, on widespread interventions in oil - bearing regions and not only, there would be grub) mentality. At the Humpback on raspberries, the bandits also ate more satisfying food than in the homes of Soviet people who were robbed or killed by them, and the level of "salaries" on raspberries was generally heavenly at the prices at that time, but, believe me, not due to the nobility of the mentality of Humpback and his accomplices. I repeat, I speak only of the economic side of the matter, and it is quite unnecessary to inflate every word I use (there are amateurs here, you know) into a separate topic.

It is ridiculous to talk about earning money not on prices, but on volumes in relation to a society for which the main thing is not to feed and provide people, but to make a profit (and human interest is secondary, it needs to be satisfied only insofar as it contributes to profit). If this were not the case, then as a result of competition (and I'm not even talking about overproduction crises), prices for almost everything would drop to zero, and they would talk not about a crisis, but about complete communism due to overflowing bins. But they prefer not to reduce prices below the level of rare "sales", products in such periods should be destroyed, crushed, drowned, etc.So long as they do not get "interested" at too low a price. How can you talk about their "earning on volume" mentality?.. If in recent decades there has been less pressure and heating (of overproduced goods), it is only because for several decades a new niche has been created for dumping surpluses - in the place of the former socialist system. But even such a powerful expansion of the global capitalist market (especially for Group B products), which has always fiercely competed for every square meter of influence, did not save the system from a crisis. So, how is it? Everything's getting cheaper by leaps and bounds, isn't it? Are they selling more and more and getting cheaper and cheaper? Alas, if such a dynamic is possible, it is not in the capitalist world.

Actually, earning money on prices and earning money on volumes is not a bike, but a reality, and I'm not the only one talking about it. There is nothing forbidden, unreal or unusual about it. This is spelled out in economics textbooks. There are many ways to make a profit. Even graphs are given that show that the maximum profit happens at the average price, due to the increase in people able to buy the thing. If prices fall below this level, the profit falls again. So it's simple.
Sales there (over the hill), by the way, are not rare, and they are regularly held in more than one major store. In Germany, not so long ago, I bought gaiters of 1.5 euros (not to this day), and when I returned to Moscow, I saw them for 150 rubles. The fact that I paid 7 euros in Germany (for sale), in Moscow hangs for 2500 (and sale is not expected). And the manufacturer is the same-Turkey, even the labels are the same.
And pollinators for 7 euros? Have you seen the insect detector in our major bookstores at a price of 300 rubles? And there, in the central bookstore, a whole rack of determinants costs from the simplest, I would say children's, for 3.5 euros to A4 hardcover for 22 euros and all in color on good paper, and with good photos.
The opportunities, in this case, are the same both here and abroad. Is it possible to release a good determinant at a price of less than 5000? There is. Then why does the price go over 5000? You can make economic calculations in the spirit of Marx for a very long time, but books exist at lower and lower prices, including on our market.

This post was edited by Ju-lia-08.11.2009 11: 27

Wow.... skok was beaten up.

The author himself, having once sold his work to a publisher and lost the rights to it, continues to sell it to other buyers, depriving the publisher of part of the profit. In addition, such trade violates a number of our laws. So the snout itself is in the fluff. With this approach, a person in principle should not care who besides him "does not do well" with a foreign publishing house, and not consider himself "Caesar's wife", and the rest-freeloaders. Although I can guess that such a question worries only as long as the author has not sold out the author's copies and only against the background of those fabrications that if the publisher does not sell out the circulation, it will not buy the next work from him, and in general, he himself sometimes used both programs and disks without really caring about how much they are original, as long as the quality is good.

Ju-lia, I am very sorry to read all these lines of yours. How I violate the publisher's rights. I'm entitled to a certain number of royalties. And I sell them. And I don't break any laws. And I don't consider myself Caesar's wife. And I don't think anyone is a freeloader. So come on, Ju-lia, just chill out a little. Moreover, the weather is favorable for this. Where did I call someone a freeloader? Where did I say that book prices should be so high? There should be both cheap qualifiers and expensive ones. And there are cheap ones - look at the beautiful books of Pavel Gorbunov, at KMK publishing houses.

To T. Ju-lia. Your message does not say anything new about the pricing rules, and the question about" from which the price goes off scale " for a certain type of book has already been answered in detail, and more than once. They also talked about how to avoid this and suggested solving this problem by doing. In particular, buy these cheap ones. If you yourself claim that there are cheaper books, then I don't see a problem at all that you (or anyone else who can't afford expensive books) should be so worried about. Everything is fine, because there are cheaper books! For the fate of the circulation of expensive books, do not worry, no one forces anyone to buy them, how to disperse the circulation is not our headache. And the fact that goods are more expensive and cheaper, here, too, was repeatedly recognized. The topic did not start with my message, which you use, apparently, as an exclusive response object. How much can you talk about the same thing.
P. S. By the way, and leaky gaiters can be obtained even cheaper.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 08.11.2009 12: 38

By the way, for the first time I learned that, it turns out, you can't sell the same books that the publisher also sells. Before that, I believed that it was impossible to sell counterfeit goods. How does selling books by an author harm the publisher? I could still understand the harm to publishing, if the author, after reading other advisers, reduced prices at a loss and dumping would knock down the publishing implementation. But the authors, in my opinion, are accused of inflating the price. And overpricing has never been a means of cutting down competitors.

In my opinion, those who defend a long-understood position here, it is easier to buy at least the entire print run from the publisher and sell it at the prices they deem necessary. I guarantee that the sale of books (not scans from books, my deaf friends, but the books themselves, books purchased in good faith!), except for prohibited ones, is both morally and legally impeccable.

You talk about cars like a horseless person. My grandfather had a Lincoln Continental.So, when my grandfather went out to pick mushrooms, on a country road, he dropped everyone out of the car and drove it slowly and lightly, because landing at the car...

And I'm not the only one. I believe that those who prefer to talk about them in a horse-breeding way are just a minority here. Although without you, it wouldn't have occurred to me to classify positions on the issue of pricing in this way. Oh, well.
I didn't see your grandfather or his car, so I won't lie. But I saw on the same asphalt platform under everything, probably the well-known cable car behind Krasnaya Polyana, a whole herd (I hope the term is quite horse-like?) cars whose drivers are waiting for customers, i.e. tourists who want to ride in the mountains. I know some of those drivers personally. The routes there are quite standard, and the number of them is very limited. Drivers all live in those parts, and the range of driving needs they have is the same. Those who get a client will go to the mountains using the same roads. But one car is cheaper, the other is more expensive, and the price difference is very significant, it is unlikely that they lied to me. And those cars that are more expensive, do not have gold "wipers" or door handles, but almost certainly have better quality indicators (that's why they were purchased by people with cheaper ones on sale). Guess three times: the one who is cheaper, did not buy more expensive because it would greatly interfere with a higher quality (lies about gold and other gadgets, I repeat, there is absolutely no place), or because it is going to use a cheap car to overcome gullies through the air, or only to the extent of its capabilities. your wallet?

In my opinion, all those who have been talking implicitly here have perfectly understood my position on this issue. And all other pricing factors have already been mentioned here a hundred times. And almost everyone realized that if it is cheaper, then all the more so you do not need to suffer because of the presence of more expensive products nearby and do not threaten to counterfeit IT, but calmly buy cheap (if, of course, you did NOT LIE about its availability). It is precisely the fact that there are cheaper books that absolutely removes the fable about "pushing", about forcing someone to commit a counterfeit: what kind of pushing, there are plenty of cheaper books, go and buy them??? But if you, my dear friends, submit just such a book in terms of content, but at the price next to it, then it's time to understand that in no law, in no horse breeding, there are no such principles of calculation that, when calculating the retail price for ONE product, require you to calculate the costs not for this very product, but for some-then another, even if it is a thousand times similar in purpose and content. You can only fail to understand this if you really want to fail to understand it. Or with an appropriate ethical position, a priori preferring not to do better and cheaper than a neighbor who fights dearly for his (not for your) work, but simply to steal the fruits of his labor while shouting about "pushing". But this will not even be the approach of a horse breeder, but a horse thief.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 11/16/2009 22: 18