Literature

Have you eaten too many sick bees, lads?
Or is it autumn that covers so much?

http://rghost.ru/471372
print it yourself is cheaper ))

Moreover, there are no problems.

Have you eaten too many sick bees, lads?
Or is it autumn that covers so much?

No.
Yes.

Overreacting.

Overreacting.

Are Siberians hot guys too?

I will accept as a gift all the books on butterflies that you are going to throw away, and even pay you for sending them!

I'll send it tomorrow, you don't need any money

thanks
to the rest: don't look a gift horse in the mouth

Dear friends, and you noticed that after one topic, I will not call it so as not to raise the dead, everyone became some kind of angry, nervous, each other bite narovyat. That topic has died down, let's all return to constructive, calm communication.

I'll send it tomorrow, but I don't need any money

Novel !!! FINALLY FIVE BALLS

I will accept as a gift all the books on butterflies that you are going to throw away, and even pay you for sending them!

I'll send you Papilionidae of PRC with a genital analysis. EXPENSIVE

thanks
to the rest: don't look a gift horse in the mouth

This, presumably, is a hint that due to the extremely low occupancy rate (but at the same time-high attendance) of the topic "I will give it to you for free in good hands", it is time to start the topic "I will accept you for free in beautiful hands..."

Novel !!! FINALLY FIVE BALLS

Eh... ball l ami to eat-where would be nice. And then I was saving up a ball in a butcher shop for a card, and the store, before I had time to use up the ball, take it and disappear... And in the nearest ones, they demand money, even for six points they won't give you anything. And if you go somewhere on an expedition-so there are seven balls, probably not enough for a ticket... God help it, with material interest, but after all, you don't feel any joy or pride from the ball over the years, and in general you start to feel more and more bewildered with each extra ball...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 11/24/2009 01: 35

Dear friends, and you noticed that after one topic, I will not call it so as not to raise the dead, everyone became some kind of angry, nervous, each other bite narovyat. That topic has died down, let's all return to constructive, calm communication.

No, this, as I noticed, has a pulsating character and has been happening for a long time. Not just one topic is to blame. And it never became a tragedy, almost always almost everyone returns to a calm business conversation. So it will be, of course, this time, because we need each other too much to hit pot on pot. For people with a really general scientific interest, normal communication is prescribed, so to speak, by a heavenly moderator.

Novel !!! FINALLY FIVE BALLS

I don't need estimates

Eh... ball l ami to eat-where would be nice. And then I was saving up a ball in a butcher shop for a card, and the store, before I had time to use up the ball, take it and disappear... And in the nearest ones, they demand money, even for six points they won't give you anything. And if you go somewhere on an expedition-so there are seven balls, probably not enough for a ticket... God help it, with material interest, but after all, you don't feel any joy or pride from the ball over the years, and in general you start to feel more and more bewildered with each extra ball...

Wow!!!!! Finally!!!! Here! These are the words of truth!!! This is the best I've read in this section of the forum... There is nothing to add here, and you don't need to...

The only thing, I want to ask everyone here "lit up" from the category "it's expensive for us" - have you published at least one book yourself?
I didn't post anything either...
I am a student, and even without parental sponsorship, I work part-time in an ambulance and as a laboratory assistant in one of the departments at my university... And believe me, I CAN't buy very, very much of what I would like... What should I do - hang myself? A person has money to go on expensive expeditions to places where even cartographers still shitty climbed - God grant him health for this! And money! Here on Yakovlev many drive... I even felt sorry for him... I don't suck up... I don't need to, believe me. Our interests are almost never intertwined... I'm sitting in the Crimea, and I don't go anywhere outside of it... And, for now, I'm not going to... Everyone says the names "Linnaeus" and "Staudinger"with a sinking breath... Were their books cheap? In general, when was HIGH-QUALITY entomology cheap? The reality is that many " specialists "have to work closely with their Western colleagues (types, fees, exchange, etc.). And to quote OUR books in the West, they must be" face-wise " like Western ones. Please ask: "Are the roads to the west equal?". This is non-negotiable. Read the history - there were such comrades in the USSR as, for example, Lysenko... They also did not want to look up to the West... And what is the result? Nothing good! If someone wants to become a specialist in a particular group, believe me, the cost of books is half the battle. Without knowledge of the STANDARD material, you will not succeed... And how much does it cost to travel around the world and what types to find? Big goals mean big costs. It has always been so. So keep it simple... In the end, no one cancels the Internet - YOU can contact ANY specialist and consult if necessary.

Still, the love of Slavs for freebies is indestructible. and no one thinks about supporting the author financially by buying his works. so soon our authors will stop writing books, and you will be able to determine your later acquired copies according to Lampert and Seitz

The message was edited rhopalocera.com - 17.10.2010 11: 45

Still, the love of Slavs for freebies is indestructible. and no one thinks about supporting the author financially by buying his works. so soon our authors will stop writing books, and you will be able to determine your later acquired copies according to Lampert and Seitz

I wonder how many Slavs can afford, for example, to pay $110.00 (AU) for each of the releases of Australian fauna? And hundreds and thousands of $ or € for illustrated atlases and catalogues? What is the surcharge for banking operations when transferring a payment? One old issue for 38 cents would have cost me about 40 euros with bank transfers and postal expenses! Yes, some of our products already cost quite impressive amounts! So ordinary people should be deprived even of information? Discrimination, right?
In addition, our Western colleagues also prefer to download from the Internet or ask the author. It is just some Slavs-fanatics who are splurging on literature.

This post was edited by Scolytus - 17.10.2010 19: 09

I wonder how many Slavs can afford, for example, to pay $110.00 (AU) for each of the releases of Australian fauna? And hundreds and thousands of $ or € for illustrated atlases and catalogues? What is the surcharge for banking operations when transferring a payment? One old issue for 38 cents would have cost me about 40 euros with bank transfers and postal expenses! Yes, some of our products already cost quite impressive amounts! So ordinary people should be deprived even of information? Discrimination, right?
In addition, our Western colleagues also prefer to download from the Internet or ask the author. It is just some Slavs-fanatics who are splurging on literature.

God, thank you for taking care of the flies.

God, thank you for taking care of the flies.

not the other way around ...

I wonder how many Slavs can afford, for example, to pay $110.00 (AU) for each of the releases of Australian fauna? And hundreds and thousands of $ or € for illustrated atlases and catalogues? What is the surcharge for banking operations when transferring a payment? One old issue for 38 cents would have cost me about 40 euros with bank transfers and postal expenses! Yes, some of our products already cost quite impressive amounts! So ordinary people should be deprived even of information? Discrimination, right?
In addition, our Western colleagues also prefer to download from the Internet or ask the author. It is just some Slavs-fanatics who are splurging on literature.

Point by point

A lot (I mean $ 110)
a lot (I mean hundreds and thousands)
only those who do not have visa or master card cards pay for banking operations
. The lepidopterology note has cost me 60 euros (price) + 23 euros (delivery) in 20 years. it was 11 kg of notes from Germany
cost-and so what? everything in the world is worth money
let ordinary people do what they have enough money to do. if you don't have enough money for a car, you won't steal a neighbor's car from the yard, will you?
everyone likes to download from the Internet. freebie is indestructible
it's nice to ask the author. if he respects you, it's doubly pleasant. if he sends you - it's nice to spend even more
money on literature, I think it's right. fanaticism is something else entirely. if you like to steal and you publicly admit it, it only characterizes you accordingly. I prefer to own things legally.

PS. and Tatarinov's book costs an unfortunate 300 rubles. is this really too much money for you?

Point by point

I'm in a white tailcoat, and you're in....

Guys, don't get into a fight... In my opinion, the main problem in the literature on butterflies, beetles, and other "noble" animals is not in the price (it is also high in publications on diptera), but in a large number of publications, including expensive ones.

I'm in a white tailcoat, and you're in ....

And I'm in black :D

  
let ordinary people do what they have the means to do.

Well, yes, well, yes... Instead of ordinary people, let them play tennis, golf, go skiing, etc., etc. (including allowing themselves a near-entomological hobby). Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi.

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 18.10.2010 10: 17

Well, yes, well, yes... Instead of ordinary people, let them play tennis, golf, go skiing, etc., etc. (including allowing themselves a near-entomological hobby). Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi.

are you, by any chance, for the dictatorship of the proletariat?
if you don't have enough money for books, go to colleagues who have them. what's easier . and on mountain skiing... Well I do not know. half of Moscow rides-and nothing .

no, honestly, it is touching when the gentlemen freeloaders are outraged by the price of books. and I'm sorry, how else can a publisher and author make money on them, if a huge segment of potential customers are basically waiting for someone to buy, scan and give to the ball? remember the cost of books at least 30 years ago, when there was practically no multiplication technology, and a copy of a book could only be obtained in the form of microfilm (which was very difficult to use, and even implement...) and compare it with today.

It seems that this issue has already been discussed and all positions have been formulated. The end of the season is not yet a reason for one hundred and first appeal to a hundred-fold obmusolennym question and repeat the old arguments. It is another matter if there are fundamentally new arguments or facts.

As for the new provision for the topic about the "indestructible love of Slavs for freebies" – then we can just as easily state the love of Slavs for water and food. Things are completely different, but none of them are specific to specific language groups. The love of freebies (i.e., the exploitation of someone else's hump), for example, is the moral basis of a market society as such, where the bread grower always earns the least on bread. Alas, everyday consciousness does not detect freebies above the level of a counterfeit entomological determinant, and those who stole the plant (or the entire economy in general) are no longer considered freeloaders, but enterprising, businesslike, etc.

In favor of the Slavs, however, I would remind you that in an honest, without freebie, international trade, they drove trains with products in the German direction until the night of June 22, 1941. On the same night, on the borders of these very Slavs, there were already those whose superiors had long ago decided that, rather than trade honestly, it was much more profitable to get much more from the Slavs and just for free. This great and terrible example of the love of freebies cannot be surpassed by the Slavs and Papuans combined for the entire past and future history under any dictatorship of the proletariat. Therefore, I suggest that in the future, if it is so unbearable, chew the question of freebies in its fundamental formulation, without unjustified language (or tribal) and erroneous class bindings.

And the fact that you need to respect authors and their work and not consider the prices of books that are quite normal for today (!) times (and sometimes, like Tatarinov's book, and affordable even for the poor) predatory, has already been said here more than once. The trouble is rather what T. Pirx said – that there are so many books coming out for us right now that no rich man will be able to have them all in his personal library. Almost no one in the West allows themselves such chicness in completing a personal library. This desire to buy off all the books on the topic in our personal library has remained since the days of the dictatorship, when books were, of course, what they were, but there were fewer of them, and they cost many times less.

A. J. Elez

oddly enough, I am quite successful and without much effort for myself to form my library from the books that I need. I have all the latest books, as well as antiques from the past and the century before last - all in the originals. what matters here is not what to buy, but how to buy it. many books can be purchased at sales or through ebay, where they are significantly cheaper than the high-priced, profit-seeking entomology stores (although I buy books there as well). the main problem of our entomologist is a weak (or even zero) adaptation to the use of the electronic market and electronic payment methods. Some Russian banks already use the paypal payment system, which makes purchases even cheaper and makes money transactions even safer. in principle, a lot depends on the customers themselves-from search to order. as a rule, people are not particularly eager to find alternative ways to purchase - either the price of insecta.de, or download from the Internet (ah, it's so expensive...) Meanwhile, it is quite easy to find the book you are interested in at a price close to the publisher's price. this is where this very myth about the love of freebies is born - it stems from banal laziness. with the Internet and a personal computer, you can find both a bank and a seller, and start buying books in the required quantity and quality. nothing complicated.

and of course, the most important thing is to appreciate books. then no amount of money for what is needed for you personally will not seem too much. In the good old Soviet times, I bought a volume of sakai about the butterflies of Afghanistan for 200 rubles, and I considered this acquisition extremely successful. I bought Tom Nekrutenko in the Caucasus for 25 rubles at the same time, and I was also very happy with this purchase.

are you, by any chance, for the dictatorship of the proletariat?
if you don't have enough money for books, go to colleagues who have them. what's easier . and on mountain skiing... Well I do not know. half of Moscow rides-and nothing .

no, honestly, it is touching when the gentlemen freeloaders are outraged by the price of books. and I'm sorry, how else can a publisher and author make money on them, if a huge segment of potential customers are basically waiting for someone to buy, scan and give to the ball? remember the cost of books at least 30 years ago, when there was practically no multiplication technology, and a copy of a book could only be obtained in the form of microfilm (which was very difficult to use, and even implement...) and compare it with today.

1) As regards the dictatorship of the proletariat... Of course, not the best option, to put it mildly. But if we consider it as an alternative to the current lawlessness... And what? It's worth thinking about!
2) Personally, I have enough funds for my needs (including the necessary books). But many of my colleagues-not for work, but for interests, hobbies, for whom our common hobby is not only a hobby, but also a source of daily bread, are forced to do so (go to colleagues). And they often need these books precisely for their professional activities, and not just to satisfy their thirst for knowledge.
3) As for the huge number of Muscovites whose incomes allow them to ski and drive golf... First, what does Moscow have to do with it? There are enough" rich Pinocchins " all over Mother Russia right now. Secondly, if someone really EARNED money, which is enough for a daily "bread and butter", and for a golf club and others like it-yes to health! But it is alarming that among such successful people there are enough idle revelers who make a lot of money, at best, out of thin air, and at worst - on someone else's misfortune. And the average standard of living in Moscow is indeed higher than in the vast majority of Russian regions, it is true.

If I have the opportunity to buy the necessary book , I will definitely use it. But I won't pretend to be a prude - if I find a scan of a book that is interesting to me on the Internet, which is not in my library, I will definitely download it.

Well, a big ship is a big voyage. But many people (including me), if they have difficulties with purchasing literature, it is not the problem of choosing a payment system (at least, not the one that charges us a salary, but the one that sends our money somewhere) that is to blame. In fact, that is why the books we are talking about here are published in a much smaller circulation than the number of people who would like to have these books. Here, at one time, they were outraged even because of the allegedly excessive price requested by the author, although it was exactly equal to the publishing price. So that's it. You didn't mention one small detail in your message – how much money this ultimately translates into, probably considering that the ability to find optimal acquisition channels is crucial and distinctive, and money is, so to speak, "other equal conditions". But as far as I know, that's exactly what money is – the most unequal conditions, much more unequal than access to payment systems and the ability to search the Internet. And, of course, it also plays a role in which books are needed by whom – for one half a book is published a year, and for another dozens of books and hundreds of articles are published a year. God grant good health to those who are really interested, who manage not to suffer from a lack of literature, but "there is still not enough for everyone" (Evg. Sazonov).
And on the Internet, the world did not converge in a wedge. On the other hand, I'm a big fan of second-hand booksellers and wrecks, and those who know me know this, and I've bought great literature for such pennies that any online order just for shipment would have cost more. So there are a lot of options, but finding them, calculating sometimes just in case, and generally all this fuss, damn it, is not a great help to scientific work. But I would never swear at authors because their books can't cost a penny today, authors also buy other people's books for the same prices as the rest of us, and I have always been against copying relatively recent scientific publications without the consent of the copyright holder.

c clegg

Yes, yes, that's great. pirate for health

Roger, hungry, swirls in the wind:
Korb's people don't steal books...

See c_clegg! Where are you located? I mean, I have an extra copy of Tatarinov ("Bulavousye" from "Fauna..."); and in your profile - your first and last name, but it's not by your last name that I can make a conclusion about your place of residence...

Dear T. rhopalocera.com! I just read your messages again and noticed the mention of "Note". Where you took it, is there still a "Note" at the price you mentioned? And, by the way, does it require any membership to purchase it? (And then there is a thank you from Vladislav, and he once mentioned such a restriction-although not at all on the "Note", of course, but in the subscription to the "Note"). If you can still buy it (even if a little more expensive), then, I think, with such a cheap price, we will soon – just economically – eliminate the "freeloaders" who will become more expensive to ruin scanners. If this is not a system, but an exception, then "freeloaders", of course, will have to watch for a certain time...

2 A. J. Eylez

I bought it on Ebay. you can search for a better offer.

2 c clegg

1. windows is licensed. software also. I prefer to work legally. and it's not so expensive, if you think about it.
2. I know that too, believe me.
3. And I won't. time is a pity, it is more expensive than any money.

To t. rhopalocera.com " thank you, we'll look it up." True, I know from experience that really successful bibliographies are not repeated twice (as they say, where I took them - there is no longer any). But I'll definitely take a look.

By T. C. clegg.
1a. In fact, almost no one defended the interpretation of "piracy" in the spirit of bourgeois law here, only ingratitude towards living authors in the form of undermining their income and, accordingly, economic hindrance to their work, which we all need. Scans of the works of Kurentsov or Nekrutenko, which have long become a bibliographic rarity, few of us qualify as "pirated" (although legally they are not much different from scans from the latest works of our living entomology enthusiasts). This issue was discussed here more in the moral aspect than in the legal one. Even the opponents of" piracy " here tried not to reach the point of idiocy.
1b. Why, there were some, but for the most part they were people whose beliefs were not hostile to the social system. Other than a very few, let them not lie. As applied to our topic: indeed, even people who object to" piracy "in principle, a specific "pirated" copy of a scientific work that they need – especially if they understand that they are not a "potential" buyer of the legal version-are almost universally ready to download and use it (but this does not mean that and distribute it too, at least outside the narrow circle of beggarly friends). This is confirmed (in the corresponding topic) not only by the statistics of thanks for scans, but also by requests from other ideological scammers who are looking for scans of publications whose rights have not expired in any way. I know, for example, one entomologist-a super-biased enemy of piracy, who literally grew up with a scanner in his youth and for some reason has a huge archive of scans, including quite recent literature.
2. 3. ОК

If, say, a pirated computer program can in principle be replaced with some at least approximately similar free one, then an article or a book - alas, that is, there is no choice. In addition, it does not occur to anyone to prohibit access to books in libraries (cases with state secrets, etc. - do not count) or, moreover, to quote fragments of their text. Again, many libraries allow you to copy or photograph pages - sometimes for free, sometimes for money. That is, the situation with software and literature is initially different.

I myself use only legal software, but with articles-as it is possible...

This post was edited by PVOzerski - 18.10.2010 23: 41

...In addition, it does not occur to anyone to prohibit access to books in libraries (cases with state secrets, etc. - do not count) or, moreover, to quote fragments of their text. Again, many libraries allow you to copy or photograph pages - sometimes for free, sometimes for money. That is, the situation with software and literature is initially different...

It's like saying...
We have closed access to the dissertation fund in the Zonal Scientific Library. I read them for the first two courses and even found everything that interests me from the entire catalog and filled out a pack of registered forms (without putting a date)... but then access was closed. It was possible to get it only by a special written request and to specific Diss. related to the topic of a course, thesis, or other work (from the dean's office).

Librarians also quickly developed an allergy to photography. They began to ban it. They explained it like this: "You can't. For this purpose, there is a department of "Photocopying )))" - for a fee." At my request, no one provided any documents confirming this requirement... I don't know if there are any...

This post was edited by Adamov - 19.10.2010 07: 30

Out of pure interest, I decided to find everything that interests me on the site www.nhbs.com... as a result, there were 16 books in the basket:


or: 47,000 rubles.

This is only what is "most interesting". Domestic books also did not take into account, hoping to eventually get a copy...

This post was edited by Adamov - 19.10.2010 09: 32

This is, of course, yes... It is still very emotional when the determinants are given only in the reading room. How can I imagine myself coming to the BAN with binoculars and mattresses ?.. It's even a pity that this situation did not happen - I would like to look at the faces of librarians