Literature

Ale, and who received royalties from the funds?

this is fatazii, Roman. fantasies of our fellow citizens who think that grants are allocated to everyone, and not just in nanotechnology :D

Grants are allocated to everyone, not just in nanotechnology, this is not a fantasy, but it is not so easy to get them, as experience shows. All grants are deposited in the RAS system or do not extend beyond the so-called central region. And sometimes they come out. We have people who once wrote a request, but then got offended and no longer write. And if you write dozens of them, they pass, break through the corruption of the RANOVO system. There are people who will never go to the field or buy pins with their own money. Or dichlorvos to spray the collection. There are all sorts of types. When we received a grant to open a laboratory for genetic analysis, we didn't believe it, and everything has an amplifier, sequencer, and a lot of other equipment. Effort and hard work will wear everything out.

Ale, and who received royalties from the funds?
A person who writes an article-writes it for science. The person who writes a book writes it for the money. Have you thought about it? Either the publisher is publishing a large book-thinking about profit. Now, in more detail, who received a kickback from the funds? This whole discussion is very interesting to me. He was a co-author and author of 7 books, 110 articles. By the way, co-author of the Catalog of butterflies of the Russian Federation.
When someone cites publications, you should be very happy, but they got into a commercial book or someone else's article, this is generally the third question. It is bad that the catalog does not contain a list of references on the fauna of the Russian Federation. I hope that it will come out as a separate work.
And the thank-you page at the checkout window is too much. No one forced me to go to biologists and get a penny, no one pulls me by the hand to go to the fields. All this is our choice. Why break spears?

We open the catalog of lepidoptera of the Russian Federation, look at page 16: "The catalog was created with the support of...". For example, I can't write something like this in my articles, since I do all my research at my own expense (please do not take this as a complaint about life). I just wonder why you need to buy something, but you can take something for free? I am for equality. Either we buy everything or we take everything for free. The first way seems to me to be a dead end. And I have already written about all this in detail in my previous posts, I don't want to repeat myself.
The thank - you page at the Yandex.Checkout window is not an overkill, but an illustration of the current situation that needs to be changed somehow. I understand perfectly well that the publisher thinks about profit, but why should I solve the publisher's problems? I need to solve scientific problems, not feed publishers.
If someone is satisfied with the current situation, that's their business. It doesn't suit me.

People had projects and entered these words to report back. There's nothing wrong with that. Why does this bother you, Dmitry? This could probably be annoying for someone else, such as one of the co-authors. Someone has a project, and someone does not.
We have here on the forum most of those who research or put the collection at their own expense. I am one of them, but buying books, magazines, spending your money on the field is a normal situation even for an employee of the Russian Academy of Sciences or a university. Of course, there are people who are in the stream, who are very good at writing applications or such topics. And you Dmitry, work in a university, or the system of the Russian Academy of Sciences??? If not, who will give you money for the trip? For what? I am happy every day that I became a biologist, that there is an interesting bright hobby that helps me cope with the routine.
And you also need to buy articles by subscribing to magazines.
You write here that you will change the situation. How, Dmitry, in what way. As far as I remember, we are the same age, probably you are already a doctor of Biological Sciences, in 10 years you will become a corresponding member, and you will go to change the situation in the Higher Attestation Commission, the ministry, and the government. How can you change anything without such opportunities?

Dmitry, here's another question. Let's assume that our team has entered into some kind of non-criminal conspiracy within the framework of a technically possible one and does not contradict any codes. Namely, we started publishing exclusively in small print runs and simultaneously posting our work on the Internet. What will happen next? I will immediately say that until I do my 7 VAKOV articles, I will not participate in this - but this is a nuance. Because if I defend myself, then this question can be considered later... Duc here: how to ensure that these very same publications are then read by colleagues? Especially those that do not have nomenclature acts, i.e. they cannot be forced to read because of the code of zoological nomenclature? Practice shows that two categories of people are very common among biologists: 1) who does not use the Internet for scientific needs at all; 2) who searches for scientific materials only in specialized databases (read commercial). And indexing the site by Google or Yandex in this situation does not save at all: you can technically find a job, but they are not looking for it.

For several years now, I have suggested putting together a team and starting to form, as I called it, GNU-PubMed (the name is absolutely conditional and must be replaced) - a kind of Internet database of abstracts (and, optionally, full texts) of biological articles, replenished by the authors themselves. Then, however, I took up teaching and began to write a doctoral thesis - it was not up to that. Again, in principle, this idea can be returned to later, and I will not be offended at all (rather, on the contrary) if someone else takes it up. However, what is characteristic is: 1) no one reacted to my suggestion in the spirit of " what, an interesting idea, but shouldn't I also connect?" - but there were a lot of skeptical assessments, on the contrary; 2) this idea will require the presence of constantly working moderators, and qualified biologists , because otherwise spammers, hooligans and Petricks of various stripes will graze there , and how many people will want to take on this work? 3) If the database is not "promoted" among the biological community , it will hang in the Network like a dead weight between the Dima Bilan fan forum and the April Fools ' Day store page - and both of its neighbors will be much more visited - and I can't imagine how to "promote" it to the extent of RZH of the Soviet years (see above, about the categories of biologists). Against this background, the problem of, say, hosting seems like a trifle (it really can be solved, and in several ways).

People had projects and entered these words to report back. There's nothing wrong with that.

This is exactly the case.

We have here on the forum most of those who research or put the collection at their own expense. I am one of them, but buying books, magazines, spending your money on the field is a normal situation even for an employee of the Russian Academy of Sciences or a university.

Thank you for "even"... I work in the Russian Academy of Sciences and am currently a project manager at the Russian Foundation for Basic Research. "Rich, bastard" - many will think. Unfortunately, in vain. Funding for the" standard grant " of the Russian Foundation for Basic Research is very small, and in recent years it has been falling, and the number of problems, respectively, is growing. I would be happy to publish my financial breakdown (unfortunately, this will be against the rules), in order to upset my colleagues who think that getting a grant is the way to a comfortable life.

There is another option - the average grant is obtained for 5-6 people (if I remember correctly, this is the average size of the "research team"), the manager takes everything, and the rest go begging: "can I buy it?", " can I pay for it?". But this is a matter of conscience.

To PVO:

Pasha, you need to do, and not "try to offer to put together a team..." After several publications in a well-indexed journal, colleagues from South America started writing to me, who were surprised to find that even in snow-covered Russia there is a person describing their fauna.

And "petrik" is written with a small letter.

Dear Leonid Nikolaevich,
I attributed "even" precisely because those who have grants face very serious problems in terms of reports and other things.
When you have calculated the amount and scored 800 tr, and you get 270, and you need to do the job... this is a normal situation. It's just that a lot of colleagues here think that some bigwigs from science are just pumping money in huge streams. That's not so. In addition, no one will give money for the research of their area, for the fauna... In a word, all these are disputes that are not needed.
I will be in ZINA 12-13 - we can meet in person. I will be very glad.

Thanks! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.

Yes, an example from life: 300 thousand re is a good amount, but /for 6 people /for a year, minus deductions, charges, deductions, etc., etc.

Unfortunately, I will have to be in Vietnam on November 12-13. So, we'll meet again next time! I will be very happy!

Thanks! I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you.

Yes, an example from life: 300 thousand re is a good amount, but /for 6 people /for a year, minus deductions, charges, deductions, etc., etc.

Unfortunately, I will have to be in Vietnam on November 12-13. So, we'll meet again next time! I will be very happy!

And you haven't offended me in the least. They probably misunderstood me. Good luck in Southeast Asia.

People had projects and entered these words to report back. There's nothing wrong with that. Why does this bother you, Dmitry? This could probably be annoying for someone else, such as one of the co-authors. Someone has a project, and someone does not.
We have here on the forum most of those who research or put the collection at their own expense. I am one of them, but buying books, magazines, spending your money on the field is a normal situation even for an employee of the Russian Academy of Sciences or a university. Of course, there are people who are in the stream, who are very good at writing applications or such topics. And you Dmitry, work in a university, or the system of the Russian Academy of Sciences??? If not, who will give you money for the trip? For what? I am happy every day that I became a biologist, that there is an interesting bright hobby that helps me cope with the routine.
And you also need to buy articles by subscribing to magazines.
You write here that you will change the situation. How, Dmitry, in what way. As far as I remember, we are the same age, probably you are already a doctor of Biological Sciences, in 10 years you will become a corresponding member, and you will go to change the situation in the Higher Attestation Commission, the ministry, and the government. How can you change anything without such opportunities?

No, it's not the fact that someone got paid that bothers me (I'm happy for them), but the fact that some of the scientific information that by definition should be available to everyone is not available because of some stupid laws. Well, I've already beaten off all my fingers about Claudia about this.
No, I don't work at any university or in the Russian Academy of Sciences, and not that I'm not a doctor of Biological Sciences, but not even a candidate of biological Sciences (and so far, thank God, I don't need it). I go and do everything else for my own money. I've already written about this. I am ready to provide my work to anyone for free and I think this is normal, because this is not a commercial development. I've already written about this. And how to change the situation, too, already wrote.
Everyone used to think that here, they say, a good uncle will come to a high post and do everything right. Don't let him come. In your head, you must first change everything and act. And when everyone acts contrary to the established order of things, an uncle in a high position will be forced to change the rules of the game, because everyone no longer wants to play according to the old ones.

Dmitry, here's another question. Let's assume that our team has entered into some kind of non-criminal conspiracy within the framework of a technically possible one and does not contradict any codes. Namely, we started publishing exclusively in small print runs and simultaneously posting our work on the Internet. What will happen next? I will immediately say that until I do my 7 VAKOV articles, I will not participate in this - but this is a nuance. Because if I defend myself, then this question can be considered later... Duc here: how to ensure that these very same publications are then read by colleagues? Especially those that do not have nomenclature acts, i.e. they cannot be forced to read because of the code of zoological nomenclature? Practice shows that two categories of people are very common among biologists: 1) who does not use the Internet for scientific needs at all; 2) who searches for scientific materials only in specialized databases (read commercial). And indexing the site by Google or Yandex in this situation does not save at all: you can technically find a job, but they are not looking for it.

For several years now, I have suggested putting together a team and starting to form, as I called it, GNU-PubMed (the name is absolutely conditional and must be replaced) - a kind of Internet database of abstracts (and, optionally, full texts) of biological articles, replenished by the authors themselves. Then, however, I took up teaching and began to write a doctoral thesis - it was not up to that. Again, in principle, this idea can be returned to later, and I will not be offended at all (rather, on the contrary) if someone else takes it up. However, what is characteristic is: 1) no one reacted to my suggestion in the spirit of " what, an interesting idea, but shouldn't I also connect?" - but there were a lot of skeptical assessments, on the contrary; 2) this idea will require the presence of constantly working moderators, and qualified biologists , because otherwise spammers, hooligans and Petricks of various stripes will graze there , and how many people will want to take on this work? 3) If the database is not "promoted" among the biological community , it will hang in the Network like a dead weight between the Dima Bilan fan forum and the April Fools ' Day store page - and both of its neighbors will be much more visited - and I can't imagine how to "promote" it to the extent of RZH of the Soviet years (see above, about the categories of biologists). Against this background, the problem of, say, hosting seems like a trifle (it really can be solved, and in several ways).

I, unfortunately, not so long ago on the forum and, apparently, missed your wonderful undertaking. But with the submission of c, clegg started the "Forum Member Publications" branch. You'll see it grow into what you suggested. I'll be happy.
I absolutely don't care if I have these 7 Vakov articles or not. I don't understand how they affect the uploading of work to the Network. I believe that as soon as everyone at least on this forum starts participating in this project, it will move and start gaining popularity. The transformation of biologists ' categories is in our hands, understand this. Do you think that only presidents make history? Every single one of us. Only some people prefer to stand on the sidelines and see what happens.
I don't know about traffic. Why do you want the page to outperform Bilan by rating? This is not necessary at all. It's clear that there are far fewer biologists than Bilan's fans, so what? Spit on everything? Let there be only one porn on the Internet? I don't think there is much point in hooliganism here for the aforementioned reason - the resource will be popular with a small number of people.

This post was edited by kovyl - 01.11.2010 15: 38

you speak in vain for all of them. I am not just satisfied with the old rules, but more than satisfied with them.

you speak in vain for all of them. I'm not just happy with the old rules, I'm more than happy with them.

I already understood this, but I'm not satisfied with it. Should we call a referendum?

As far as I know, in the "rotten west", that is, in the "civilized world", the issue of free distribution of publications written based on research results supported by state grants is already actively discussed. This is motivated by the fact that since the research is already financially supported, it is unfair to force interested people to pay a second time for the opportunity to read the publication. The mechanism already exists: many journals offer the possibility of free placement of electronic versions on the web. Not for free, of course.

I completely agree with the idea, but in our conditions... I was already calculating how much it would cost to make my article free, for example, in Zootaxa. Unfortunately, the amount is not suitable for our grant.

[quote=kovyl,01.11.2010 16:42]

Biology probably has its own specifics. In the technical sciences, in which I have some relation, everything is simpler. If you don't want to show something to interested parties because of the know-how, then it is something that is patented. We are happy to make all other research publications freely available, otherwise it is not clear why to publish them. There is no concept of MAKING MONEY from publications.

Uv. Yakovlev, I have today received such" impressive " information about the plans of our "upper classes "(Fursenko and others) regarding higher education and pedagogical institutes in particular - that the idea of Makhno is beginning to seem very topical. However, as you quite correctly pointed out, if we don't play by their rules, we won't receive the very pieces of paper without which we are not people.

Uv. kovyl, I explain how Vakov articles affect the posting of works to the Network. I can't post articles published in MAIK magazines (and most of them are among the VAK ones) online because of the ban imposed by this very <...> MAIK. And without these articles, I will not be able to defend my doctoral thesis due to non-compliance with formal requirements. And someone (and there are more of them) wants to protect their candidates. Naturally, I will continue to post articles from the cathedral collection , since we do not have any such <...> rules in it. But the collection is not Vakov's.

Uw. sdi
Specifics are simple: our developments have no commercial value, so we can't make money on them. Accordingly, we are forced (if we want to stay in Fursenko's department) to chase "little things" like academic degrees, for which they deign to give us extra money, increase the chances of winning a grant, and so on. Outside of this wonderful department, it will be difficult to do your main business at a level higher than amateur-although, for example, no one in our system, as a rule, refuses to do completely non - core part-time work-because of the beggarly salaries at the main one.

A child was thrown out with water!

2 Yakovlev
And why don't you like this situation, if all your work will be freely available?
You have posted a list of your works in Publications. In other words, you will send anyone a scan of any of your work, including "Mongolia"?

I like that. Very much so. I will send anyone a scan of any of my work that I didn't sign up for under the contract. I have 95% of such jobs. If you signed a contract somewhere and then happily broke it under public pressure , it's pretty obscene. Isn't it?

Uv. Yakovlev, I have today received such" impressive " information about the plans of our "upper classes "(Fursenko and others) regarding higher education and pedagogical institutes in particular - that the idea of Makhno is beginning to seem very topical. However, as you quite correctly pointed out, if we don't play by their rules, we won't receive the very pieces of paper without which we are not people.

Do you know my motivation for defending my PhD in entomology when I was still working as a doctor? For self-defense. So that someone with a degree doesn't point their diploma in my face. Now my plans are already more conscious, but the self-defense component in them occupies a huge percentage.

This is of course. Although in the normal world, a good university teacher without a degree could be respected. Moreover, the candidate could (and still can) to be respected "according to the Hamburg score" (and in general in the scientific community) is much more than another doctor-namely, as a scientist. Like, for example, PhD student A. A. Dobrovolsky from St. Petersburg State University.

But about "If you signed a contract somewhere, and then happily, under public pressure, broke it - this is quite obscene. Isn't that right?" "let me disagree. If I follow the law in this case, it's only so that I don't have any problems. Because when you are forced to make some promises by twisting your arms, in my opinion, then you can send these promises to the devil and not feel any special sins behind you. And the MAIK policy is objectively harmful. Our science is not so highly rated in the world that MAIK journals are bought up, for example, by university libraries around the world. As a result, articles simply don't reach their co-workers.

... self-defense component...

Over time, it will develop into an "attack component" ...

  
But about "If you signed a contract somewhere, and then happily, under public pressure, broke it - this is quite obscene. Isn't that right?" "let me disagree. If I follow the law in this case, it's only so that I don't have any problems. Because when you are forced to make some promises by twisting your arms, in my opinion, then you can send these promises to the devil and not feel any special sins behind you. And the MAIK policy is objectively harmful. Our science is not so highly rated in the world that MAIK journals are bought up, for example, by university libraries around the world. As a result, articles simply don't reach their co-workers.

I didn't mean the MAIK agreements, which is bad... Of course, I will send PDF articles from the ZZ or EO to anyone who wants, this is clear. I meant contracts for 2 of my own (co-authored!!!) books published in the Czech Republic. As for the MAIK policy, this is an absurd policy, starting from all these contracts, ending with the price of magazines. I agree with you 100%!

Over time, it will develop into an "attack component"...

Undoubtedly. I love writing negative reviews and have already suffered for it. I'm going to continue my endeavor. I think that you, a colleague, are not under my gun . Read my words on the branch - abstracts and you will understand what I'm talking about.

Arrange a referendum. That will comfort you, I'm sure.
You know what that reminds me of. Enemy divisions are coming at you, and you show them a fig and wildly rejoice. Bold, risky, but wasted. Isn't it?

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 02.11.2010 21: 06

Arrange a referendum. That will comfort you, I'm sure.

Or maybe he'll wipe someone's nose.

You know what that reminds me of. Enemy divisions are coming at you, and you show them a fig and wildly rejoice. Bold, risky, but wasted. Isn't it?

Not like that. Perhaps all these "divisions" can be counted on one hand.

How I am amused by the overconfidence of some. Does a Ph. D. degree give them such a sense of rightness?

This post was edited by kovyl - 02.11.2010 21: 35

Wipe it off, wipe it off... Amuse yourself with the self-confidence of some. Count it on your fingers. Feel like the hero of an ancient adventure, so to speak. The kn diploma gives small privileges, take my word for it. I can't understand what you're fighting for, Dmitry. Declare war on the system, start a fight club. You will hold a referendum here. What will you achieve? What's the point. Who can you prove what to? This is a very simple, aimless and primitive way to deal with some phenomenon. Once again, I suggest that you become an academician of b.n. and we will go under your banners to seek justice from the bureaucrats and others. Make sure that EE costs not 300 E, but 40 E a year, so that graduate students are paid more, so that more funds are allocated for biology, etc. This is difficult - but effective. What do you think?

I don't feel like anyone. And I'm not at the age to be looking for any special adventures anymore. It's sad that after reading all my posts, where I seem to have described so clearly what I stand for, you still can't understand why. Maybe I didn't write it very clearly ...
Yes, I will not be an academic, I don't need this nafig. And under whose banners you will not go to seek justice, You will achieve it in your head first, then the banners will not be needed. Well, I don't know how to explain that NO ONE WILL DO ANYTHING FOR YOU EXCEPT YOU. Is it really that hard to understand? Have you read Strugatsky's "A Billion Years Before the End of the World"? If not, please read it.
Why the referendum - but just find out the position of the people. We will conduct, so to speak, a small scientific study. Result for the sake of the result. Fundamental science Is it not difficult to vote?

So, it is very likely that in 10 years not only publications in electronic versions of journals will be recognized on an equal basis with paper versions - paper versions by that time may not even exist in principle. Information technology is developing rapidly, what percentage of film cameras were relatively digital in 2001? At the same time, audio cassettes were still being sold. Where are film cameras and cassettes now? For those who value "analog truth", or rather, for those who have "imprinting" on these things turned out to be more valuable than rationality, for whom the "process itself" is important-how the cassette turns and the film manifests itself
The same applies to magazines, conservatism is such a thing, it is certainly strong, it is a matter, as long as its ascetics are strong, it will not take much time and no banners will be needed, there will be online magazines. They will be reviewed, and it is very likely that Yakovlev too
In order for books to become "classics", it took centuries, and electronic systems appeared, and it seems that they have always been there - and not even 50 years have passed.
Yes, and it's time to think about nature - as they say - " take care of the forest-the treasure of the planet! Trees are for beetles, post on the Internet!"

But the most important thing is whether free access will be the rule, and not a rare exception?

+1
Yes, there should be free access, but also strict reviewers.
By the way, about digital cameras. In the year 2002, when they were still expensive, one of my friends (the owner of a Nikon F80) hissed and spat, what the hell these digital cameras are. I, even though I only had Zenit, defended the position that they will be better and that the future belongs to them. So what? He now clicks on the Samsung soap dish (dreaming, however, about something. better) and very happy, back to the film it does not pull.

This post was edited by kovyl - 03.11.2010 00: 24

+1
Yes, there should be free access, but also strict reviewers.

But it won't be there. There will be reviewers, but there is no place without it. But free access... They did without it for paper publications, they will do without it for digital ones, this is my opinion

Maybe we have a different meaning in the concept of "free access"?

I don't know, but what are the nuances? Free access seems to be an unambiguous concept - although there are two directions - access "from there" and access "there", access" there " is limited by reviews, so it is not free, but it should be in theory.
Access "from there" is free when anyone can download the entire file. Without abstracts and "first pages". I think there are no compromises here.

By the way, about the idea that the recognition of purely electronic publications will also promote free access, I think that if recognition is constrained by two issues - technical, which has already been resolved, and conservative, which will be resolved "in a few days" by "generational change", then the question of free access is more ideological - what prevents it from being resolved now, when almost all reputable magazines have a mirror on the Internet? But subscriptions are paid, and if so now, why should this change when publications become purely digital?

I think then what has just happened in the software world will happen: the journals will be divided into "proprietary" and "free" ones.

I think then what has just happened in the software world will happen: the journals will be divided into "proprietary" and "free" ones.

So this is exactly what I would not like. Software is by definition a commercial thing. Although people do a lot of things out of love for art and put them in free access. In science, such a number will not work. There you need to study all publications, no matter what publications they are in. If some electronic publications are paid, then we will again come to what we have been trying to avoid for so long.
Once again, the quintessence of all my posts is that all scientific publications should be accessible to everyone (except for those that are state and commercial secrets, of course; but this does not seem to concern our topic). It's not my fault who didn't get it.

Now, since no one is expressing an opinion on the intermediate positions, I propose a voting scheme: two opposite positions as separate posts. Who adheres to which one-puts a thank you there (however, it turns out not to be a secret vote).

This post was edited by kovyl - 03.11.2010 00: 06

By the way, kovyl, there is a fundamental difference between the current situation with paper publications and the threatening (and current) situation with electronic ones. The fact is that so far no one has canceled free libraries. Accordingly, the publisher does not require deductions from each person who reads the article. I understand that it is so easy for me to reason with a ZIN and BAN at my side , but nevertheless it is better than the situation with paid electronic publications. In the same bathhouse, access to them is organized on a paid basis-albeit inexpensively. That is, if you came to St. Petersburg and broke through to the library, your financial expenses will not be directly related to the amount of paper literature studied (let me leave your living expenses out of brackets), but in the case of electronic ones, they will also be related.

Regarding URL #365:
There is also a technical possibility to organize a survey (full-fledged "secret voting"). by regular means, and not by "flowers".

The PDF file was stored on the server. It was available all over the world, but no one had time to download it. The server died, and the PDF was lost... And so the server died, which is neither in a fairy tale to say, nor with a pen to describe: the hard disk was washed down, it had a terrible head crash. And now there is no PDF file, and where can I get it?

And in parallel with that PDF, they printed a book. On good old paper. And they sent it to 50 libraries. The first one burned down - 49 books remained. The second one burned down - 48 were left... And so the remaining books lived and did not grieve, and they were not afraid of head crash.

I pumped myself a year or so ago one site, a site without beauty, even the start page and that bald one, solid directories and files in them. High-quality scans: interesting local lore literature, historical ones, etc., but mostly-maps, from the most ancient to the most modern, including general staff ones, etc., of various scale options. I put a lot of things (because of encoding spells) manually on uploading, but I downloaded most of the files with rocking chairs; as a result, I got a full copy of the site at home on 27 div files. A few weeks passed, the site - like a cow language, then there was a starter with the announcement that, they say, krandets our server, we will find something to restore. Then some crumbs were restored, not comparable to what was before.

With the Internet, it's also bad that not only your site can disappear at any time, but also that it's also more reliable to link to someone else's paper - otherwise go tomorrow in case of doubt, prove that someone's site barked yesterday, and not you sucked the link out of your finger when writing your work the day before yesterday.