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28.12.2017 10:49, Бомка

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen macro photographers,
I wish you all a Happy New Year 2018.
As a gift, I put up three Vespula vulgaris head shots
taken with a Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x Macro lens
with different
Sony NEX-3n (16Mpx, crop 1.5),
Canon 650D (18Mpx, crop 1.6) and
Sony A6000 (24Mpx, crop 1.5) cameras
at the maximum 5x zoom.
---
Entire frames can be downloaded from the link - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/4wHR/uJxLDu5ZG
---
Below,for comparison,
the crop sizes are 400x600 pixels, from left to right:
Sony NEX-3n, Canon 650D, Sony A6000.
I shot from a tripod with macro rails,
but with this magnification, it is very difficult to focus on sharpness.
Please do not throw stones. wink.gif
picture: __2.jpg

28.12.2017 10:50, Бомка

And I shot, approximately, like this:
picture: __1IMG_8649.jpg

---

P.S. I noticed my jamb - on the NEX-3n, the image resolution is only 4 Mpx.

This post was edited by Bomka - 28.12.2017 11: 09

28.12.2017 17:56, ИНО

And how was it processed? Sharpness is clearly not enough for any of them (although you can see that there are details, just blurred as if not with noise reduction), the A6000 BB has something completely wrong with the color. Sorry for the indiscreet question, but why keep two mirrorless sonya at once? Or did someone give it to you for testing?

28.12.2017 18:39, Бомка

I didn't process it. Only cut out the crop lines.
The source code is available here.
The images were taken without preparation.
Canon's auto-white balance did a great job on its own,
the A6000's white balance was on auto, the NEX-3n's I set up the foam BB,
the sharpness is yes, blurred, probably from pressing the trigger with my finger.
There is no flash yet, so the shutter speeds are too long.
After shooting, I noticed that both Sonya's aperture was clamped down to 16 (maximum at MP-E).
And the m / w adapter "EF-Sony E" affected the choice of aperture.
Although, like, all the frames in A-mode fotkal.
I'm going to sell a small sonka, because I haven't used it for a long time.
I also have a Canon 5D and a Nikon D200 e... it will be necessary to take pictures of the eyes of the os for comparison. beer.gif

28.12.2017 18:47, ИНО

What a collection! For the last two, it will be difficult to shoot without a live view.

It's clearly not about the wiggle. Either schumodav worked hard, or the lens is like that. Do you have any slaves?

28.12.2017 18:56, AVA

What a collection! For the last two, it will be difficult to shoot without a live view.

It's clearly not about the wiggle. Either schumodav worked hard, or the lens is like that. Do you have any slaves?


This is a rather specific lens. An aperture of 1: 16 on it is only suitable at a scale of 1:1. But at 5:1, putting a hole less than 1: 4 is not at all suitable because of the increased diffraction.
In addition, it is not recommended to shoot with this lens without a tripod and remote cable. If there is no cable, you can use a timer set for at least three seconds.

28.12.2017 19:16, Бомка

Usually, I take such a macro on the 650D via a USB cord from the netbook.
There's also a bigger screen than Canon's monitor.
Today it was lazy to deploy the full "macro installation".
And I wanted to compare these sonka and canon in order to understand
how the number of megapixels on the matrix affects the magnification of the subject.
Just bought an autofocus adapter.
But I concluded that the difference between crop 1.6 at 18Mpx and crop 1.5 at 24Mpx is almost imperceptible.
Yes, and it is more convenient to shoot with a Canon without an extra adapter.
Rava if someone is interested, of course I can take a picture.
I don't remember exactly about the aperture, but
it seems that you can't open a hole at a 5x approximation of the MP - E more than 1:6.3.

28.12.2017 19:26, KM2200


Sharpness yes, blurred, probably from pressing the trigger with your finger.
Yes, you that eek.gifWhen shooting in the laboratory, and even with such an increase, use the timer necessarily. Game won't run umnik.gifaway it's fried

28.12.2017 19:42, ИНО

With such a sharp lens and 10 megapixels would be enough for the eyes. Yes, I am interested in RAV, but not the one that is 24 megpixel, I'm afraid I won't pull the iron.

This post was edited INO-28.12.2017 19: 45

28.12.2017 19:53, Бомка

OK, tomorrow I will shoot rava on all the apertures.
On open holes, the depth of field suffers greatly.

28.12.2017 20:26, Hierophis

I wonder if anyone is still tired of clinging to the white balance of the photo expert?)))

An ambiguous gift )
I certainly do not have such a large magnification as in MPE, to calculate the magnification, I just estimated how many mm fits in this frame, led to the size of a standard film of 36mm and it turned out that for a 36mm frame, the increase is 3.6 times (5 mm in a 17X13 frame).
The pixel density is slightly lower than in the Sony A6000, 56 against 59 thousand per 1 mm square.
I shot on a hybrid object just focusing the camera, lighting with a flashlight) IMHO, but somehow the contrast is even more)

Pictures:
picture: 2P1280512.jpg
2P1280512.jpg — (96.84к)

picture: P1280515.jpg
P1280515.jpg — (80.11к)

28.12.2017 20:31, Hierophis

I finished a little TV channel :0 The far branch is photographed for 20 meters and the near one for 10 meters. All with hands on ISO 500. You still need to blacken it inside, and pide smile.gif

Pictures:
picture: P1280492.jpg
P1280492.jpg — (37.73к)

picture: P1280452.jpg
P1280452.jpg — (73к)

picture: P1280454.jpg
P1280454.jpg — (140.92к)

28.12.2017 20:49, Hierophis

And so it is even possible)
And so yes, MPE is cool, after all, it costs 1000 pupaars )

Pictures:
picture: P1280524.jpg
P1280524.jpg — (222.67к)

28.12.2017 21:04, ИНО

Only the achromat won't stick to the white balance on the third Bomka photo.
And the panov lens is definitely better than the one youdollorovyj. But here's the grain...

This post was edited by INO-28.12.2017 21: 06

28.12.2017 21:39, AVA

  
I don't remember exactly about the aperture, but it seems that you can't open a hole at a 5x approximation of the MP - E more than 1:6.3.

You can, it's not zoom-AF, but completely manual.
But the GRIP at such a scale, indeed, falls catastrophically. Therefore, stacking is usually done with subsequent stitching. The number of layers can be very large (dozens), which leads to swelling of the final file (if stitched in Photoshop).

28.12.2017 21:41, Hierophis

Waabshche-the main thing is a practical component, so that you can just go and take a picture on the wall of a hay eater or a butterfly without any sleepers and railssmile.gif, although you still need to wait for pictures at smaller apertures, because really the aperture from 8 even starts to spoil the image.

And the middle picture was taken in the classic way via MBSumnik.gif, I already made an adapter, I thought it would take pictures, but figs are there. And moreover, at macroforums, similar results are also obtained in people who write that a soap dish through an eyepiece is better than without with a matrix instead of an eyepiece. Although in the sovdep-manual it is suggested to take photos without an eyepiece. Probably, so that Soviet citizens suddenly don't take a secret photo through MBS))

Pictures:
picture: P1280530.jpg
P1280530.jpg — (66.56к)

picture: P1280568.jpg
P1280568.jpg — (101.46к)

picture: P1280539.jpg
P1280539.jpg — (81.02к)

28.12.2017 21:46, Hierophis

And I think, what is this topic you have to scroll, who posted a megafotka, and it turns out that this is Alex smile.gifAlex, well, I've already written a hundred times - in your fotik it looks like a non-switched sharp, noise reduction or something else, do not like photos, buy yourself a Fujifilm XT-2 BU Kenon series A 5XX, from the new soap dish better not take smile.gifit

28.12.2017 22:14, ИНО

And in the USSR, there was nothing to take pictures through the eyepiece, except for a spy camera or a narrow-film one with a special lens. And they took pictures through a special photo set, which Pan, of course, does not have, and on 35-mm film, because there was enough sharpness. But, in general, MBS is of little use for photography precisely because of its binocularity. And as it is now customary to shoot similar objects on mirrorless cameras, I gave a link to pan.

29.12.2017 0:46, KM2200

I finished a little TV channel :0 The far branch is photographed for 20 meters and the near one for 10 meters. All with hands on ISO 500. You still need to blacken it inside, and pide smile.gif
The moon is cool! But why is it so small? And what is the shutter speed?

29.12.2017 1:04, Hierophis

I don't remember the shutter speed anymore, like 1/500, but why is it small, well, it's also a crop ) The real focal length is 300mm, the EFR is 600.

By the way, it turned out that the background of Industriar 26M is steeper than that of Jupiter-8, and the sharpness of the Indian is 2.8 higher than that of Yu-8 by 2.8! Surprisingly, I even changed my mind about the old objects, I have long had two Hindus 61LD, so they are horror, and this 26M seems to write that the predecessor of 61LD, and fotkaet wonderful, even with special effects like streams of light)

Pictures:
picture: P1280604.jpg
P1280604.jpg — (69.85к)

29.12.2017 1:48, ИНО

When using industriars as macro attachments - the same circles, it's strange that they surprised Pan, as well as the greater sharpness compared to the" artistic " Jupiter - 8. And I-61LD, probably, Pan just killed time, I saw a lot of very sharp photos from them. For example

This post was edited by ENO-29.12.2017 02: 03

29.12.2017 6:57, Бомка

I took a picture of Oska today at a 5x zoom level in RAW+JPG.
Noise reduction turned off, sharpness at 0.
I shot it through a netbook using a cord.
The MP-E has a total of 16 apertures available at any zoom level:
2.8,
3.2,
3.5,
4.0,
4.5,
5,0,
5.6,
6.3,
7.1,
8.0,
9.0,
10,
11,
13,
14,
16.
File Links:
RAW - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/41HB/qcbBdTZib
JPG - https://cloud.mail.ru/public/FHyM/nzx4qZrFc

picture: __1IMG_8659.jpg

29.12.2017 7:12, ИНО

Zhpegi is clearly better than steel, if you scratch it will be watchable. So a macro lens for 1000 CU has the right to exist, although it does not give pixel-by-pixel resolution on that matrix. But it's time for the camera to remap. I'll give you some Ravi later.

29.12.2017 7:20, ИНО

About the aperture: at /6.3, the sharpness begins to drop noticeably, then it gets worse. It seems that for quiet scales, given the need for strong aperture and the influence of diffraction, it is better to use old cameras with "fat-pixel" cameras, rather than modern ones. Too bad they're all without live view.

29.12.2017 10:02, Hierophis

Well, fso, ixpert gave the green light to the MPE project ))))
Waabshche-something MPE is quite a cool object in resolution, and if you switch it to 3X mode, it will be many times better than my design, then the only question is the price ))
Another thing is that for such a price it has a number of jokes, the main one is that there is no focus. These are only experts who have never shot with interchangeable lenses in their lives, and they can say that it is enough to "move" the camera, but in fact this method only steers up to 10 cm, and above that, focusing is preferable, especially if the shooting is carried out through the branches of a shrub or grass.
Well, the fact that this MPE does not hold a diffraction pattern of 8, in many reviews they write about it, which is generally surprising, since in many objects the diffraction pattern of 8 is the optimal comprmis between GRP and diffraction.
Also interesting are tests for the evenness of the field, you can take photos of a flat section of a millimeter or an ordinary notebook in a cell at the very least.

29.12.2017 12:12, ИНО

29.12.2017 13:05, AVA

  
Individual preferences should not be imposed. Most makrushnikov admit that they focus mainly with their hands and feet.

I've been shooting macro shots for over 40 years. I started with Practice, then switched to Canon and continue with them. I can confirm that during all this time I used autofocus no more than 10-15% of the time, despite the "cool" full-format devices and L-lenses. Basically, accurate focusing is done by moving your own body in manual mode. Autofocus at macro scales approaching 1:1, "lies" always!
That's why MP-E doesn't have autofocus, but it's just not effective at 1:1-5:1 scales.
Likes: 1

29.12.2017 13:08, Бомка

IMHO, the helicoid for MP-E is like a hare's fifth leg.
It is sharpened for laboratory slow macro photography.
He needs a tripod, good light, and macro-rails,
preferably electric automated ones, will make the focus fine-tuning.
There are, of course, craftsmen photographing live objects with it.
But for large magnifications, its use in nature is difficult
or you will need to carry a heavy photo macro gun with a butt,
tripod bipods and a" Picatini bar " with fixed macro rails.
The length of the MP-E case when "unfolded" = 23.5 cm.
And even if it is bolted to the foot on a tripod, its "tube" is very sensitive to microvibrations.
- - -
For the "flatness" field test, I can take a picture of paper money.

29.12.2017 13:25, Hierophis

Actually, I also don't understand why Ixpert wrote his speech about autofocus, when macro shooting, he really misses, and manual focus is needed - when shooting at distances from 10-15 cm and further in cases when the camera is not convenient to bring to the object - through branches or grass. Yes, and it is much more convenient to take a position and adjust the remaining centimeters by focusing.

As for the MPE, from what I read, I already understood that the field there is even in all modes, but everyone scolds it for sharpness above 3X, they write that it is better with shifters, well, the aperture above 8 is soapy.
In general, this object is for a full frame, maybe because the resolution is not so high and there is no sense from it at a high pixel density.

29.12.2017 13:52, ИНО

29.12.2017 14:06, Hierophis

Yes, the case is hard lol.gifWaabshe "rational thoughts" of this type are purely those that do not coincide with his fantasies-he makes assessments of his own megafotkam, he assigns himself "victories" in disputes, and at the same time talks about what he did not even hold in his hands))
Increasing the sharpness on a larger matrix is something from the series like the dependence of the GRIP on the size of the matrix, in fact, just the sharpness with a decrease in pixel density theoretically decreases(the softness of photos from DSLRs), and improving the image on a large matrix is associated with a number of factors, this is a different scale, and DD, and smaller noise, but the contours of different halftones will be sharper on a small matrix, it's easy for me to see this practically, and theoretically it's easy to understand, but ikspert just can't see this))
He would want to take up his net, instead of tryndezha on lol.gifthe forums

29.12.2017 15:17, Бомка

Let me screw the MP-E on the Canon 5D tomorrow and discuss the photos together.
it's just a pity that EOS-Capture doesn't want to work on my netbook...

29.12.2017 15:43, Hierophis

Fasten it of course ) I wonder what will happen, this camera has about 13 thousand pixels per 1mm, which means that the resolution of the matrix is not more than 50 lines per 1 mm, but rather even less ) Given that the eye of vespula is about 1.5 mm for the most part, then at 5X the area that will be occupied by it on the matrix is about 7mm, but given that the GRIP on such modes is very small, then clear elements will be observed within a square of about 2 mm side, sts. it will be enough to crop a square with a side of 5 mm, it will have a resolution of approx. 0.32 MP - a rather extreme option smile.gif

29.12.2017 16:35, gumenuk

Camera Make: SONY
Camera Model: DSC-F828
Original Date / Time: 2006-06-18T17:00: 33
Exposure Time: 1/60
F-stop: f/8.0
Focal Length: 51.00
exif:ISOSpeedRatings[1]: 64
Using a nozzle lens +4 diotries

Pictures:
picture: DSC09037.jpg
DSC09037.jpg — (586.15к)

29.12.2017 16:40, gumenuk

Camera Make: SONY
Camera Model: DSC-F828
Original Date/Time: 2006-07-24T15:45:21
Exposure Time: 1/30
F-stop: f/8.0
Focal Length: 49.30
Exposure Bias: -3/10
exif:ISOSpeedRatings[1]: 64
С использованием линзы +4 диптрии

Pictures:
picture: DSC02526.jpg
DSC02526.jpg — (481.06к)

29.12.2017 19:00, Hierophis

Images on I26U, first, I61LD, second and on Vegu11U. third, the aperture is 4 everywhere.

Pictures:
picture: P1280658.jpg
P1280658.jpg — (70.71к)

picture: P1280664.jpg
P1280664.jpg — (65.39к)

picture: P1280667.jpg
P1280667.jpg — (71.05к)

29.12.2017 19:14, Hierophis

Comparison of 100% drops on I26U. the first, and Vegu11U, the second.
Here you can see that despite the low contrast and color aberrations, I26U drew the details normally, and Vega smeared, so I26U has a higher resolution than Vega, but I61LD has a lower resolution than Vega )

Pictures:
picture: 2P1280670.jpg
2P1280670.jpg — (121.33к)

picture: 2P1280669.jpg
2P1280669.jpg — (146.15к)

29.12.2017 19:30, Hierophis

But alas, with microscopic objects, all these Vegas and Indians can not be compared either in contrast or in detail...

Pictures:
picture: 2P1280680.jpg
2P1280680.jpg — (120.81к)

29.12.2017 23:06, Hierophis

30.12.2017 0:04, gumenuk

Yes, I read about this camera, and close analogues - I didn't even know what it was already started to be released in 2001! Despite the noise, which I don't care about, the pictures are just a bomb, the object is very good, and as for me, I liked the pictures more than with the modern PX 10 series.


No, RX is better, more functional, and more versatile. You can't judge its capabilities from the few images I've put up here. You can get a more complete picture if you view my photos on the Photo Club https://club.foto.ru/user/3452 (where the captions indicate which camera was taken)

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