Hesperiidae

23.11.2009 16:00, Kharkovbut

I made three more pyrgus from ocd. Zaporozhye 2-alveusa, 1-armoricanus. It is strange earlier when cooking came across only the last. Photos of genetalia didn't work out.

Oh, too bad. Maybe you can take a photo of imago? I want to see the Real Alveus...

There is another sign of the base of the garp in the alveus that is almost twice as wide as in the armoricanus.

Also, this base of the armoricanus should be hook-shaped, and the alveus should be smooth and wide-right?

23.11.2009 16:57, Alexandr Zhakov

Oh, too bad. Maybe you can take a photo of imago? I want to see the Real Alveus...

Also, this base of the armoricanus should be hook-shaped, and the alveus should be smooth and wide-right?

Photos before cooking.
Moreover, both butterflies were caught on the same day in the same gully.
Zaporozhye region. Zaporizhia district, Nizhnyaya Khortytsia gully, 10.05.2009.
Pyrgus alveus




Pyrgus armoricanus



Also, this base of the armoricanus should be hook-shaped, and the alveus should be smooth and wide-so.
Yes, here the stereometry, as you can see, is curved in both cases, but the trend can be traced.

23.11.2009 21:01, Kharkovbut

25.11.2009 18:18, svm2

25.11.2009 20:14, okoem

Today I received a parcel from Gena. Here are the results:

P.carthami
May 19, 2004, Khmelnitsky region, Kitaygorod village.





P.serrarullae
May 27, 2003, Khmelnitsky region, Slavuta.

25.11.2009 21:14, Kharkovbut

Today I received a parcel from Gena. Here are the results:

Great. Everything was confirmed.

25.11.2009 21:40, Kharkovbut

Yeah... It is a pity that it is not "in English" ... Eh... I'll go buy a good dictionary from payday! My pickpocket won't do at all."..

Google translate basically translates fairly well... But it is better in English - in Russian it turns out closer to abracadabra...

25.11.2009 21:41, Vlad Proklov

And let's not forget about Babelfish

25.11.2009 22:00, Kharkovbut

IMHO, Google does a better job.

26.11.2009 9:48, Гена

Today I received a parcel from Gena. Here are the results:

Vova, thank you so much! I am very glad that I did not make a mistake in the definition of carthami.

ps: However fast ukrainian mail works

27.11.2009 22:48, Egorus

Without waiting for winter, I learned to cook genitals in late autumn.
The whole process wasn't very difficult, but it wasn't very exciting either.
The most pleasant thing is to see the results of your actions through binoculars.
The second stage, photographing boiled genitals, was more difficult.
It is difficult to get a high-quality photo, but the process is being improved, and I hope
it will be worked out.
Here is the result for one of the candidates for P. carthami -
it turned out to be P. serratulae ( )


(P.S. I continue my research.)

27.11.2009 22:59, Kharkovbut

Here is the result for one of the candidates for P. carthami -
it turned out to be P. serratulae ( )

What did I say?

Photos of genitals are WONDERFUL!

We are waiting for the continuation. It would be nice to cook the alveus/armoricanus group.

27.11.2009 23:16, Egorus

28.11.2009 14:31, vasiliy-feoktistov

Female Carterocephalus silvicola Meigen, 1829? from the Moscow region.
Taken: 08.09.2009. here: M. O. Balashikha district, Zheleznodorozhny district, glade in the forest.
P.S. If it is defined correctly,I will remove the question (please correct it if you are wrong).

Pictures:

Hesperiidae.jpg — (164.97 k)

28.11.2009 16:28, Yakovlev

  
The whole process wasn't very difficult, but it wasn't very exciting either.

I was sincerely pleased with the gratitude to me "for shaking up". I'm currently sitting at the monitor and laughing. Thank you dear distant friend from Ukraine!!!
Today, by the way, I also received a large envelope from I. Ivy with his impressions. Today is my Ukrainian day.

I'm sorry, but how much did you (I'm sorry that you...) think cooking genitals is fun. Especially the genitals of males.

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 28.11.2009 17: 20

29.11.2009 12:53, Egorus

02.12.2009 23:06, Egorus

And I, in response to "Reports...", cooked a suspiciously small M. tessellum
And even digested it.
But still tessellum.

28.12.2009 1:50, okoem

Evidently, the rarest Crimean thickhead is Carcharodus lavatherae(Esper, [1783])
Crimea, Kara-Dag, August 7, 1985, two females. From the collections of Yu. I. Budashkin.

Pictures:

20091227_143000.jpg — (116.77к)


20091227_143254.jpg — (100.76к)


20091227_143438.jpg — (114.07к)


20091227_143723.jpg — (97.29к)

28.12.2009 2:30, barko

Nice butterfly. I caught Carcharodus lavatherae in southern Dagestan in 1992

Pictures:

004.jpg — (57.04к)

28.12.2009 18:42, chebur

Photo of this species in nature
23.07.08 Carcharodus lavatherae Esp. Spain.Catalonia.Vall de Nuria.1964m

28.12.2009 18:55, chebur

Sarterocephalus silvicolus M Russia, Moscow region, Chekhov district
female
01.06.08

male
06.06.08

27.05.07

17.01.2010 18:36, Kharkovbut

Alveus would... And then you start to doubt-do they exist in nature, did not invent their taxonomists?

23.01.2010 23:31, Alexandr Zhakov

24.01.2010 7:13, bora

Genitalia of P. alveus

Pictures:

alveus_male.jpg — (241.33к)


alveus_female.jpg — (78.57к)

24.01.2010 7:14, bora

Those from whom the genitals are removed

Pictures:

alveus.jpg — (202.83к)

25.01.2010 0:22, Shapik

Ukraine,Crimea, Dolgorukovskaya yayla, 12.08.2009 - not determined

Pictures:

186.jpg — (130.63 k)

25.01.2010 0:25, Vlad Proklov

25.01.2010 0:26, Alexandr Zhakov

10.02.2010 19:07, Kharkovbut

Pasha, the drawings, as always, are great!

By the way, Lvovsky and Morgun write that the post-vaginal plate is sclerotized.

To be clear, they don't write anything like this. They write that the species of the alveus group have a postvaginal plate without sclerotized areas (and if there are any, then it is not square in shape).

But here is what de Jong writes: armoricanus has an antevaginal plate without sclerotization (as well as in Lvovsky-Blinker). I.e., it is clear that this female is not armoricanus. In tsinara, the female genitals are characterized by an "undeveloped post-vaginal area" (what does this mean? de Jong does not provide images...

IMHO, your drawing is really very similar to the drawing of the genitals of Alveus in Lvovsky-Blinker. But I would like, for the sake of the purity of the experiment, to formally exclude the (completely delusional) possibility that this is such a cynara.

Thanks!

10.02.2010 20:56, Damone

10.02.2010 21:15, okoem

10.02.2010 21:19, bora

10.02.2010 21:26, bora

10.02.2010 21:26, Kharkovbut

If chesno-could make good photos-better photos would do!

Uh, no, you can also teach a monkey to photograph genitals (it would be nice), but this is how to draw...

Aha, I also seem to have misunderstood that according to Lvovsky, sclerotization is not on the antevaginal plate itself, but "on the side of the copulatory opening". And the specimen from Luhansk has sclerotization on the plate itself?

In any case, sclerotization of the postvaginal plate is not decisive in our (alveus group) case, and it is not present in the available specimens. Right?

Here's another question: what is "postvaginal lobes"? Aren't these the "finger-like outgrowths" around the antrum? Then it can be an interesting thing to get...

10.02.2010 21:37, Damone

10.02.2010 21:56, bora

10.02.2010 22:15, bora

10.02.2010 23:41, Kharkovbut

don't know...

ok. Well, let's say it's them (although, really, XS . Then it turns out this. De Jong writes that P. cinarae has no postvaginal lobes. That the other" forms " of the alveus group have two of them each. EXCEPT for one: P. bellieri (= foulquieri), which has THREE!

11.02.2010 7:28, bora

I took a little monkey-like photo of the genitals in refracted light (so that not only the areas of sclerotization were visible, but also the membranous structures that are lost in transmitted light), and also contrasted and highlighted the Flank photo. It turned out a strange comparison.

This post was edited by bora - 11.02.2010 08: 19

Pictures:

3.jpg — (306.48 k)

11.02.2010 7:34, bora

Here is a comparison of the genitalia of alveus-serratulae females. Confusing, in my opinion, is difficult.

Pictures:

alveus_serratulae.jpg — (123.29к)