Genus Parnassius

thanks for the help.
But I still have my doubts

This post was edited by fayst79 - 05/11/2010 15: 44

Good day, forumchane!
I've been reading the forum for a long time, so I decided to participate
In support of the topic, I post a photo
of a hybrid of apollo and Tien shanikus,
who was asked a couple of pages ago
by the ocd. Almaty, Bolshoe Almatinskoe gorge, 2100m
10.06.2008

Pictures:

p.hybr.JPG — (179.85к)

and a little more....

left: P. charltonius aenigma, topotype,
Kyrgyzstan, Irkeshtam, 2950m, 15.07.2009, leg. P. Yegorov

right: P. charltonius romanovi, topotype,
Kyrgyzstan, Aram-Kungei, 3800m, 20.07.2005, leg. A. Zhdanko
daisies were glued together after the invasion of kozheaters:weep:
I got rid of pests long ago, but the butterflies suffered...

Pictures:

p.charltonius.JPG — (210.28к)

in this case, doubt further.

Just visually looking at other nomions.there is a difference
in the photo still not clear, then I will put another one.

I think this is Nomion mandschuriae Oberthur, 1891

P. charltonius aenigma on vacation
Kyrgyzstan, Irkeshtam, 2950m, 16.07.2009

P. simonius taldicus
Alai, Taldyk, 06.07.2009, 3850m





left pair-simonius taldicus
Alai, Taldyk, 06.07.2009, 3850m
right pair-simonius simonius
Zaalai, Aram-Kungei, 25.07.2009, 3900m

Egorov, had a good ride last year on parnas places

P. tienshanicus tienshanicus
Kazakhstan, Trans-Ili Alatatau, 27.05.2009, 1950m







P. tienshanicus insignis
Kyrgyzstan, Alai, Kyzyl-Eshme, 15.07.2009, 3100m


P. tienshanicus goniscus
Kyrgyzstan, Zaalai, Aram-Kungei, 26.07.2009, 3400m

P. mnemosyne orientalis
Kazakhstan, Trans-Ili Alatatau, 27.05.2009, 1950m

P. patricius lukhtanovi
Kyrgyzstan, Sary Jazz river, 20.06.2009, 3850m



pair on the left - P. patricius kardakoffi
Kyrgyzstan, Kungei Alatau
pair sparava - P. patricius lukhtanovi
Kyrgyzstan, Sary Jazz River, 20.06.2009, 3850m

P. delphius
pair on the left - P. D. pulchra
Kazakhstan, Trans-Ili Alatau, 18.07.2007, 3150m
pair on the right - P. D. candidatus
Kyrgyzstan, Sary Jazz River, 20.06.2009, 3850m



P. d. albulus
Kyrgyzstan, Naryn

P. apollonius
pair on the left - P. a. afroditae
Kazakhstan, Kapchagai, 28.04.2009, 500m
pair on the right - P. a. glaucopis
Kazakhstan, hr. Karatau, Kentau, 03.05.2009, 750m

P. staudingeri
is still according to the old classification:
left pair-P.S. infernalis
Kyrgyzstan, Alai, Taldyk, 06.07.2009, 3800m
right pair - P.S. illustris
Kyrgyzstan, Zaalai, Aram-Kungei, 25.07.2009, 3950m

P. actius
male from above-P. A. muzaffir
Kyrgyzstan, Zaalai, Aram-Kungei, 25.07.2009, 3950m
in the center and at the bottom-P. A. minutus
Kazakhstan, Trans-Ili Alatau, 07.08.2008, 3100m

P. jaquemonti variabilis
Kyrgyzstan, Zaalay, Aram-Kungey, 25.07.2009, 3750m

P. apollo marzbacheri
Kazakhstan, Trans-Ili Alatau, 15.05.2008, 1900m
plus male aberrant apollo in the center

P. boedromius
top P. boedromius martiniheringi
Kyrgyzstan, Kungei Alatau
bottom female P. boedromius sokolovi
Kyrgyzstan, Ala-Bel

Egorov, on Sary-Jazz priamus a not lukhtanovi

I am sure that this is lukhtanovi,
they caught it on the Kazakh-Kyrgyz border, along the right bank of the Sary-Jazz
, 10 kilometers from the famous Lukhtanovi point,
further to the priamus, and the butterflies are different.
Thank you for your love and attention to parnassus.

This apollo was captured in China in the second decade of May 2010 in the Dabashan Mountain Range (central China), an altitude of 1750 m. Help us define the view.

Pictures:

Бабочки_002.јрд — (196.59 k)


Бабочки_003.јрд — (176.31 k)

This apollo was captured in China in the second decade of May 2010 in the Dabashan Mountain Range (central China), an altitude of 1750 m. Help us define the view.

Similar to P. glacialis

Oh, hilarious gibberish.

Dear collectors and entomologists!
Next year I plan to go to Kirgyzstan to film rare Parnassinae, newly described ssp. and their biology in their's own habitats. If anybody have any experience whith this country or any localities, please write me on my e-mail.

Dear colleagues! Next year, I plan to shoot rare and newly described subspecies of Parnassus and their biology in their natural habitat. If anyone has experience (fishing trips) in this country, write to the soap.

Something like that.

Thank you Sergey


Dear collectors and entomologists!
Next year I plan to go to Kirgyzstan to film rare Parnassinae, newly described ssp. and their biology in their's own habitats. If anybody have any experience whith this country or any localities, please write me on my e-mail.

Dear colleagues! Next year, I plan to shoot rare and newly described subspecies of Parnassus and their biology in their natural habitat. If anyone has experience (fishing trips) in this country, write to the soap.

e-mail: bigall@mag-net.sk

This post was edited by radusho - 06.07.2010 20: 39

Do you know anything about this species other than the original description?

Parnassius liudongi Huang, 1999

Described in the journal Lambillionea (99 (3): 335 - 337) from "Chinese Tianshan, Xinjiang Province, P. R. China". The label, as you can see, is in the traditional Chinese style; I attach the image. It feels like the butterfly belongs to P. acdestis, a subspecies of marki...

I would also say it's P. acdestis.
But Chinese Tianshan??? Yes, and for Xinjiang like the view is not specified. Where is the subspecies Parnassius acdestis marki Epstein, 1979 described from???It is doubtful that with Tian Shan.

А вот что пишут на www.insects-online.de/frames/papilio.htm
liudongi [Parnassius (Koramius) acdestis]: recently described as a separate species closely related to P. acdestis; in judging from the orginal description (Huang 1999), the differences mentioned in male genitalia and female sphragis based on two specimens of each sex do not appear to warrant distinction at species level but rather seem to be within common margins of intraspecific variation.

I immediately question the label.

the differences mentioned in male genitalia and female sphragis based on two specimens of each sex do not appear to warrant distinction at species level but rather seem to be within common margins of intraspecific variation.

Another Chinese view??? In my opinion, it's a mess. Especially with such a label.

The species is described in accordance with all the requirements of the ICZN, so until proven otherwise, it is a species...

Egorov, on Sary-Jazz priamus a not lukhtanovi

priamus, according to the latest data, is separated into a separate species. One of the factors in favor of this is sympatry in some localities of patricius / priamus.

priamus, according to the latest data, is separated into a separate species. One of the factors in favor of this is the sympatry in some patricius/priamus habitats.

Can I link to the article ?? Or it's like with Parnassius hunza )))))) and Papiloi kamchatalus. I personally caught both those and those, by the way, I caught the last ones this year. I can assure everyone present that this is 1000% swallowtail.

I can assure everyone present that this is 1000% swallowtail.

And how do you determine-by eye or, perhaps, by taste? Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying that this is an independent type, I just want to argue for such categorical statements...

2 MisterXus


Michel F., Rebourg C., Cosson E., Descimon H. 2008. Molecular phylogeny of Parnassiinae butterflies (Lepidoptera: Papilionidae) based on the sequences of four mitochondrial DNA segments // Ann. Soc. ent. Fr. 44 (1): 1 - 36.

Weiss J.C., Michel F. 1989. Description de nouveaux taxa du genre Parnassius provenant du Tibet (Chine) (Lepidoptera Papilionidae) // Bull. Soc. Sciences Nat. 61: 5 - 19.

Korb S. K. 1997. Understanding the faunogenesis of club-whiskered lepidoptera (Lepidoptera, Rhopalocera) Central Asia // Zool. zh. 76 (9): 1046-1058

Then dig the links in the specified articles. The fact that you caught someone is not proof of anything in the taxonomy. The problems of hunza / staudingeri/jacobsoni and priamus/patricius machaon/aliaska/saharae/kamtschadalus have long been solved, you just need to dig a little in the literature. I especially recommend such authors as Seyer, Eitschberger, Weiss, Michel, Inomatai, Kawasaki, Omoto. Good luck searching

Thank you Sergey
Dear collectors and entomologists!
Next year I plan to go to Kirgyzstan to film rare Parnassinae, newly described ssp. and their biology in their's own habitats. If anybody have any experience whith this country or any localities, please write me on my e-mail.

Dear colleagues! Next year, I plan to shoot rare and newly described subspecies of Parnassus and their biology in their natural habitat. If anyone has experience (fishing trips) in this country, write to the soap.

e-mail: bigall@mag-net.sk

I am afraid that neither in the next nor in the following years it will be possible to enter Kyrgyzstan without a solid army of security guards.

I am afraiding that in next and close years Kyrghyzstan will be unavailable if you don't have personal guards army.

Do you know anything about this species other than the original description?

Parnassius liudongi Huang, 1999

Described in the journal Lambillionea (99 (3): 335 - 337) from "Chinese Tianshan, Xinjiang Province, P. R. China". The label, as you can see, is in the traditional Chinese style; I attach the image. It feels like the butterfly belongs to P. acdestis, a subspecies of marki...

Mr. Huang-quite a lot of typical Tibetan butterflies for Chinese Turkestan and even Chinese Altai, his monograph on Xinjiang butterflies is also a kind of instruction - how and what to find. Or confuse labels, which is 99% more likely.

Yeah. That's what I mean. 100 % the label is incorrect. Yes, and 100 % akdestis is.

Yeah. That's what I mean. 100 % the label is incorrect. Yes, and 100 % akdestis is.

The species is described in accordance with all the requirements of the ICZN, so until proven otherwise, it is a species...

Dim, I'm not proving anything here. Prove if-then in the article and with syn. n.

Kharkovbut, they crossbreed with the swallowtail and produce fertile offspring ))))
And in general, they don't even look like a muzzle. Subspecies and all. And about the little ponytails... they have normal-sized ponytails. There are some with small tails, but this is one for 10-20 pieces. IMHO Swallowtail !

Tienshanicus and apollo also crossbreed. Hybridization doesn't prove anything. Arguments like "subspecies and all" in our environment do not roll . Have you tried to guess the sympatry of the swallowtail and camchadalus? :D

you can't see the theme of p m kavkazika
can we rock this theme
what can we offer
fayst79

Mnemosyne is Caucasian, right?
who else has any other options?