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Identification of beetles (Coleoptera)

Community and Forum → Insects identification → Identification of beetles (Coleoptera)

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02.02.2010 23:17, Sugercete

Let me assume that this is Vespilloydes:

user posted image

The mace is black. The posterior red spot is surrounded.

This post was edited by Sugercete - 02.02.2010 23: 57

03.02.2010 0:35, Sugercete

I'm still in a Ditiskus stupor wall.gif

user posted image

user posted image

I interpret these processes as concave along the inner edge and having elongated points, and moderately. Circumcinctus comes out. Female, striae exactly up to 1/3 wall.gifSo Marginalis or Circumcinctus?
Help, sorry to distract, but I also ask for clarification, since this" concavity " of the processes IMHO is not at all obvious.

Thanks

This post was edited by Sugercete-03.02.2010 02: 17

03.02.2010 4:09, vasiliy-feoktistov

Let me assume that this is Vespilloydes:

user posted image

The mace is black. The posterior red spot is surrounded.

He's the one. Now, alas, I drop out of the forum for a day (work).

03.02.2010 4:10, vasiliy-feoktistov

I'm still in a Ditiskus stupor wall.gif

user posted image

user posted image

I interpret these processes as concave along the inner edge and having elongated points, and moderately. Circumcinctus comes out. Female, striae exactly up to 1/3 wall.gifSo Marginalis or Circumcinctus?
Help, sorry to distract, but I also ask for clarification, since this" concavity " of the processes IMHO is not at all obvious.

Thanks

From above, it would be nice. And I will add: you have a female (if the elytra are ribbed, then Marginalis, and if smooth,then Circumcinctus). From your description: probably the first one.

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 03.02.2010 04: 50

03.02.2010 11:16, Алексей Сажнев

According to Vasya Dyadichko, the female swimmer Dytiscus circumcinctus Ahrens, 1811 , should have a thin yellow stripe around the eye.
Likes: 1

03.02.2010 11:29, Dmitry Vlasov

2Sugercete Ditiskus - D. circumcinctus, definitely!!! By the way, his females are not only smooth, but also ribbed. A nikroforus2 M. B. N. investigator, because pronotum is naked (it can be seen)
Vasily, don't mislead the girl....

The post was edited by Elizar - 03.02.2010 11: 31
Likes: 2

03.02.2010 13:06, Sugercete

2Sugercete Ditiskus - D. circumcinctus, definitely!!! By the way, his females are not only smooth, but also ribbed. A nikroforus2 M. B. N. investigator, because pronotum is naked (it can be seen)
Vasily, don't mislead the girl....


According to the keys, the naked prsp leads to the Investigator and the Interruptus, but the Interruptus has a black seam, and this one doesn't, so it means the Investigator.
I examined the beetle again. He's naked. Only on the abdomen there are very short hairs, but they are black.

An Investor comes out

About Ditiskus.
Everywhere they write that the female in circumcinctus can be either smooth or ribbed elytra, so this is a bad sign. Please explain the appendages. Which ones are they? Are they concave on the inside or not? I ask because I'm soaking up two more big Ditiskus and I'll be determining soon.

Thank You

03.02.2010 13:21, Sugercete

According to Vasya Dyadichko, the female swimmer Dytiscus circumcinctus Ahrens, 1811 , should have a thin yellow stripe around the eye.


There is a stripe wink.gif

03.02.2010 16:41, Kemist

Please take a look at my bronzer from the previous page

Potosia cuprina
Likes: 1

03.02.2010 16:54, Sugercete

There is a stripe wink.gif


Hike here in this photo: http://www.sungaya.narod.ru/coleo/dyti/marginalis.htm

Marginalis also has a stripe around the eyes weep.gifconfusion weep.gif

03.02.2010 17:33, botanque

Hike here in this photo: http://www.sungaya.narod.ru/coleo/dyti/marginalis.htm

Marginalis also has a stripe around the eyes weep.gifconfusion weep.gif

There is no confusion. In marginalis, a strip along the anterior edge reaches the upper part of the eye. And the body is wider than that of your circumcinctus. And on the appendages - it seemed to me that it was better to compare them in length and sharpness.

This post was edited by botanque - 03.02.2010 18: 03
Likes: 1

03.02.2010 23:55, Sugercete

ABOUT DITISKUS (continued)

So, I have 3 Ditiskus.
I would like to understand the definition and ask for the help of specialists.
Marginalis or Circumcinctus, that's the question....

For clarity, I repeat the scan of the first one and number 1,2,3

No. 1 Top ribbed up to 2/3

user posted image

user posted image


No. 2 Top ribbed up to 2/3

user posted image

user posted image

No. 3 Smooth top

user posted image

user posted image

04.02.2010 0:08, Sugercete

IMHO # 1-Circumcinctus, # 2-Marginalis, # - 3 that's what: wall.gif

It is striking that 2 and 3 are egg-shaped, while number 1 is elliptical.

This post was edited by Sugercete-02/04/2010 00: 13

04.02.2010 0:39, Bad Den

Sugercete, copies on hand, I take it?
So you can:
a) run it on the "green" (Determinant of insects of the European part of the USSR, vol. 2, is in the plantago library, I'm still ready to sell the linkwink.gif);
b) run it on this table:
http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/rus/hydrkey5.htm, the genus Dytiscus d is almost at the very end.

04.02.2010 1:03, Sugercete

Sugercete, copies on hand, I take it?
So you can:
a) run it on the "green" (Determinant of insects of the European part of the USSR, vol. 2, is in the plantago library, I'm still ready to sell the linkwink.gif);
b) run it on this table:
http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/rus/hydrkey5.htm, the genus Dytiscus d is almost at the very end.


Instead of "green" I have Jacobson, but Zin, as always, you can't figure it out without half a liter, it's too difficult. I don't get it right. For example, # 1 comes out Lapponicus, delirium.

Or is that what you're driving me out of here?"

weep.gif

This post was edited by Sugercete - 02/04/2010 02: 59

04.02.2010 9:01, Bad Den

Instead of "green" I have Jacobson, but Zin, as always, you can't figure it out without half a liter, it's too difficult. I don't get it right. For example, # 1 comes out Lapponicus, delirium.

Or is that what you're driving me out of here?"

weep.gif

No, I'm not driving.
Here is "green", as a whole file and per family.
http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/rus/keyeurdp.htm
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 10:30, vasiliy-feoktistov

2Sugercete Ditiskus - D. circumcinctus, definitely!!! By the way, his females are not only smooth, but also ribbed. A nikroforus2 M. B. N. investigator, because pronotum is naked (it can be seen)
Vasily, don't mislead the girl....

No, I'm not misleading anyone (I just came home from work right now and was "stunned"). Later I will post photos of females: D. marginalis and D. curcumcinctus (above), And I will deal with nikroforus later (N. investigator, vs vestigator) - it's just that I have Vestigator and meets.
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 10:36, Sugercete

No, I'm not driving.
Here is "green", as a whole file and per family.
http://www.zin.ru/animalia/coleoptera/rus/keyeurdp.htm


Thank you.
I wanted to buy a link to "green" by butterflies wink.gif

So, I drove all three of them on the "green", it turned out like this::

1. D. Circumcinctus
2. D. Marginalis
3. D. Marginalis

# 2 and 3 externally (from above) are so dissimilar that for the second day I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown weep.gifNot Marginalis, but just a Margin Call of some kind!

And I have a few more water beetles on the line wall.gif

This post was edited by Sugercete - 02/04/2010 10: 56
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 11:16, Alexandr Rusinov

Floaters No. 2 and 3-marginalis, these are females with a ribbed and smooth shape, so they do not look alike.
2Vasiliy-feoktistov: Yelizar is absolutely right, smooth and ribbed females are present in both types of swimmers. If you didn't come across both variants of each type, then you need to catch more, they will come across... wink.gif
Likes: 2

04.02.2010 11:27, Victor Titov

ABOUT DITISKUS (continued)

So, I have 3 Ditiskus.
I would like to understand the definition and ask for the help of specialists.
Marginalis or Circumcinctus, that's the question....

For clarity, I repeat the scan of the first one and number 1,2,3

And in my opinion, so:
No. 1-D. circumcinctus (the processes are drawn in a more or less long point, their inner edges are concave)
№ 2-D. dimidiatus (processes on the inner edge are rounded, their end does not form an angle)
No. 3-D. marginalis (processes end in a short angle, their inner edge is convex)

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 02/04/2010 11: 34
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 11:32, Alexandr Rusinov

I'm not sure about dimidiatus, it seems to me that just a photo of the basins is made from the wrong angle... Moreover, for dimidiatus, the bottom of the body with dark spots is indicated...

04.02.2010 11:44, Sugercete

Hurray!
The best minds, geniuses of entomology gathered!
Now it will go.

I also went out to Dimidiatus, but it doesn't pass along the yellow border on the prsp, since this border should be narrow in front and back. My Ditiskus all three have the most banal border on the prsp, the same around the perimeter.

About the photo of basins.
This is a scan. I pressed the beetles on top with a piece of paper.

04.02.2010 11:46, Victor Titov

I'm not sure about dimidiatus, it seems to me that just a photo of the basins is made from the wrong angle... Moreover, for dimidiatus, the bottom of the body with dark spots is indicated...

In principle, I'm not 100% sure either, but here's a picture of the appendages from this link http://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/Coleoptera/rus/hktab98.htm
In addition, the bottom of it can be just reddish-yellow. It would be nice to look from above: dimidiatus has a pronotum with a very narrow yellowish border on the front and back edges.

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 02/04/2010 11: 46

04.02.2010 11:47, Sugercete

And I still have a question on necroforuses.
Now I have straightened two Vespilloides with a very long belly. 2 times longer than the elytra. Are they females?

04.02.2010 11:50, Victor Titov

I also went out to Dimidiatus, but it doesn't pass along the yellow border on the prsp, since this border should be narrow in front and back. My Ditiskus all three have the most banal border on the prsp, the same around the perimeter.

It would be nice to look from above: dimidiatus has a pronotum with a very narrow yellowish border on the front and back edges.

Well, if so, I don't know... The processes on marginalis in No. 2 are not painfully similar. But anything can happen... Maybe the angle of the scan is really not good? Are they really completely non-pointed, rounded?
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 11:51, Victor Titov

And I still have a question on necroforuses.
Now I have straightened two Vespilloides with a very long belly. 2 times longer than the elytra. Are they females?

Most likely. In males, the segments of the forelegs are also extended.
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 11:51, Sugercete

In this link drawing of the appendages http://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/Coleoptera/rus/hktab98.htm


If you blindly believe this picture, then # 1 I have Lapponicus. With all due respect to the ZIN resource, these drawings are not too obvious.

04.02.2010 11:53, Sugercete

Are they really completely non-pointed, rounded?


Well no... take a closer look, there is still a slight sharpness(tip).

user posted image

This post was edited by Sugercete - 02/04/2010 11: 57

04.02.2010 11:58, Victor Titov

If you blindly believe this picture, then # 1 I have Lapponicus. With all due respect to the ZIN resource, these drawings are not too obvious.

Well, in dimidiatus, the processes are really without an angle, rounded. I gave the drawing this way, for clarity. And lapponicus (a) can not be confused with anyone even without looking at the processes: it is much smaller, and the appearance is very characteristic, the border on the pronotum is very wide, light narrow longitudinal stripes on the elytra... Yes there it is:
http://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/Coleoptera/rus/dytlapvt.htm
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:00, Bad Den

If you blindly believe this picture, then # 1 I have Lapponicus. With all due respect to the ZIN resource, these drawings are not too obvious.

Can I scan it from above? Laponicus has too distinctive a coloration.

04.02.2010 12:00, Victor Titov

Well no... take a closer look, there is still a slight sharpness(tip).

Yes, it's painfully weak, not expressed some corner. Although... Perhaps indeed Dytiscus marginalis is like this smile.gif
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:02, botanque

And what are the dimensions of the second ditiskus?

04.02.2010 12:14, Victor Titov

And what are the dimensions of the second ditiskus?

That's it! Dimidiatus will be bigger, there are copies as much as 4 cm...
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:15, vasiliy-feoktistov

According to Plavilshchikov N. N.: dimidiatus is really rare!!!
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:18, Victor Titov

According to Plavilshchikov N. N.: dimidiatus is really rare!!!

Yes, rather, it is not rare, but local. And prefers, as a rule, larger reservoirs.
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:21, botanque

In the dimidiatus specimens I have seen, the appendages are rounded but slightly retracted, and the grooves extend slightly beyond the middle of the elytra. Elytra of females are opaque. Dimensions 35 mm or more. All this coincides with Zaitsev's description. But the bottom of the photo is really very light.

This post was edited by botanque - 02/04/2010 12: 33
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:33, Sugercete

Scanning the top view

No. 1 length 35 mm

user posted image

No. 2 length 35 mm

user posted image

No. 3 length 31 mm

user posted image

This post was edited by Sugercete-02/04/2010 13: 00

04.02.2010 12:37, Victor Titov

Scanning the top view

M-yes, to dimidiatus http://www.zin.ru/ANIMALIA/Coleoptera/rus/dytdimsg.htm it doesn't work...
Personally, I am for Dytiscus marginalis. Although, the processes of the basins still slightly confuse me... confused.gif
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:41, Alexandr Rusinov

I have repeatedly come across copies of marginalis with broken tips of the processes of the basins. You can see this if you look at the instance at high magnification...
Likes: 1

04.02.2010 12:46, botanque

Signs outweigh marginalis - I'll focus on it.
Likes: 1

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