About tropics, merchants, and personal preferences

Who told you I didn't make it to the convention?

In that case, who are you?

In that case, who are you?

I already answered this question.

no, it's you who are trolling, and you then preferred to leave the answer

no, it's you who are trolling, and then you chose to avoid the answer

Avoiding the answer is the answer.

Some kind of nonsense!!!

And he sang songs based on the poems of Akhmatova, whose name was...

anything you say can be used against you

well, has holivar stalled?

Feed the troll, maybe we'll scrape it together for season 3!

anything you say can be used against you

well, has holivar stalled?

Lawyer, American (miranda rule)

This post was edited by swerig - 24.09.2010 13: 32

Even the forum started slowing down

Chet forum started slowing down

I went to the dacha, perhaps. I'll spend a couple of nights fishing.

Come on, bro. Th catch - here certainly spread, so that not without benefit for forum

This is not a symposium, but an online forum. With its own subculture that has developed over the decades. In which it is accepted to address the interlocutor as " you " ("you" is considered offensive. The forum on the Internet assumes anonymity initially - do not ask the moderator for a copy of the passport identification page for each user?

As for anonymity, it is your right, as well as the right of other participants, to have their own opinion about your use of this right. Formally, you can't find fault here, and no one on the forum is required to disclose their name. You should respond to arguments, not personalities. It just so happens that during any heated discussion, participants who are already known by name themselves experience purely emotional discomfort from the task of discussing with an anonymous person, and even filling out a collective financial declaration in his survey.
And on the first point, you are wrong. This is not a symposium, but it is not an Internet forum "with its own subculture that has developed over the decades", the forum is too young for this. Yes, it is unlikely and possible to bring all forums, from academic to obscene, under the general "subculture". We at the forum try to observe, among other things, the 5th point of the rules (common to all forums of the site!): "On the site's forums, it is customary to use "You "(and not "you") when referring to those participants with whom you are not familiar. If you're new here, don't be fooled by the tone of some of the discussions. Many people have known each other for a long time and can afford such a tone in relation to each other."
As for your thoughts on the topic, I hope that your anonymity will not be too much hindered by colleagues during the discussion. Let's get used to it. There are some things that you have to endure, if only to avoid being suspected of the lack of arguments on the merits of the issue.
Even if we see an old participant under a new name, we do not know this and are formally present at the birth of a new forum participant, a participant who is clearly interested and clearly in the topic. True, because of the presence of his own opinion and annoying distractions, the first common glass on the forum is a stake, somewhere with methylmercaptan, but after a touching anecdote about a hedgehog, for some reason it seems to me that life is getting better and it's time for everyone to curtail excitement, philology, etc. In my opinion, you need to be happy that our regiment has arrived, and the first words should be rather "welcome", but not "show your documents, citizen". And our initial anonymity is almost always lost not earlier, so later, it's just a matter of the general atmosphere, which depends on everyone. Delov something.

This post was edited by A. J. Elez - 24.09.2010 14: 42

Come on, bro. Che catch - here certainly spread, so that not without benefit for the Forum

you're not my brother... (C)and what and where to spread and invest-I'll ask my girlfriends.

Oh, the forum as a measure of utility? Wonderful . It seemed to me that the forum is the essence of a place for communication, and you have evon as it turns out. Perhaps, I still have to scan all my books here, so that the forum will benefit, and give money?

Well, I can earn money myself and not by selling material, but let's scan books, but I'm afraid "the toad will run you over". And stop producing stupid surveys (to be honest, they've already got their own incomprehensible statistics).

Well, I can earn money myself and not by selling material, but let's scan books, but I'm afraid "the toad will run you over". And stop producing stupid surveys (to be honest, they've already got their own incomprehensible statistics).

I may be studying the market in order to throw out (or not throw out) amazingly cheap (or expensive) entomological products. Also, don't restrict my right to create surveys, topics, and messages. I'm not restricting yours, am I? Or come on, like Bulgakov: "You should be arrested." "May I ask for what?" "And you don't like the proletariat."

I may be studying the market in order to throw out (or not throw out) amazingly cheap (or expensive) entomological products. Also, don't restrict my right to create surveys, topics, and messages. I'm not restricting yours, am I? Or come on, like Bulgakov: "You should be arrested." "May I ask for what?" "And you don't like the proletariat."

But I have now found out who you are: Professor Preobrazhensky, however

You didn't guess right. Sharikov ya.

I gave thanks, but Pavel is not quite right about his own account. Here, I repeat, I did not notice any pure collectors among the regular participants. Collecting is collecting, but he's still an entomologist. There are not only academicians there.

I gave thanks, but Pavel is not quite right about his own account. Here, I repeat, I did not notice any pure collectors among the regular participants. Collecting is collecting, but he's still an entomologist. It's not just academics who go there.

Golden words!

in general, this contradiction is most acute in our country. Only in our country do professionals contrast themselves so clearly with collectors. Making faces-fi, amateurs. Lovers are those who love butterflies, I think.
Collecting and entomology are two different things. I've written about it a thousand times. Someone has both, someone is a pure collector, someone is a pro who does not have a private collection. The main thing is that everyone treats each other with respect. And everyone did their job well and professionally. I know of a dozen butterfly candidates who are no match for the average collector.
An academic degree and knowledge are also not very related things.
And the level of some of those already entering the d.b. n. in butterflies (!) is ten times weaker than a number of our collectors who do not have a single article.

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 24.09.2010 16: 05

in general, this contradiction is most acute in our country. Only in our country do professionals contrast themselves so clearly with collectors.

I see it a little differently.
"Only in our country" collectors and amateurs with such conviction and energy try to avoid being called that.
Unlike their foreign colleagues, these words seem almost offensive to them.
And in vain, this energy can be used for peaceful purposes.

And he sang songs based on the poems of Akhmatova, whose name was...

who was called "Ivan Fyodorovich Krusenstern, the man and the steamer"

in general...
... ... ...
...not a single article.

Rum, populism is, kanesh, yes... But Amara is right - there are times when you can try harder. For the proverbial good of the cause...

Andrey, to be honest, didn't understand...
About Amara's post - I kind of agree with what our collectors say - I'm an entomologist. Yes, this is very very common.
But our professionals-so beat in private conversations of amateurs, as if they are some fiends of hell. Then I tell them I'm an amateur, too. And a collector. Not for the sake of shocking, but because of the fact that it is.
How many collectors were kicked out of museums when they went there, how many insults people listened to.
But what will pros work with, if not amateur entomologists? We take three major museums - ZIN, MSU, and ISED. Who of the curators collects and adds to the collection: V. Dubatolov and S. Sinev because of the workload is less. Where are the other comrades? Some have been on the same trip in a lifetime. And they don't break.
Believe me, I often talk to pros in Russia - and I've heard a lot of absurd things about amateurs. Disdain, arrogance. And okay, if it comes from a venerable specialist... you can tell me something (you can't understand it), but when it comes from some Gascon who doesn't know hawthorn and Stubbendorff how they differ - and has a degree in butterflies - and when this creature talks about "these lovers, these collectors" - and I know that there are Grigorievs, Temples, Nekrasovs, Tsvetaev. Witt, by the way! These same bastards sometimes say, and who is this - he has no degree, I'm a candidate of biological Sciences... And here, too, I can bring brilliant specialists. And, by the way, Witt.
It makes everyone angry. Much less when the collector says-I'm an entomologist

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 24.09.2010 17: 47

Andrew, honestly did not understand...
... ... ...
Much less when the collector says-I'm an entomologist

I'll explain.
First... mmm... now I will formulate...
If any of the colleagues who do not receive a salary for their interest notice that Papaver treats them with disdain or arrogance - let them throw a stone at him.
Let's get to the main point. The fact is that the material at the disposal of collectors is a gold mine. I would like this priceless material to go into scientific circulation - no, no, no! - keep the material for yourself! "enough information! but. I was faced with the fact that when this information was required (and, it seems, they were ready to provide it - they just had to transfer the data of fees to me), my colleagues had: lack of time, difficulties with typing, etc., etc. And although I'm unlikely to be able to become what you describe above sinister - at my age, they don't change-but once you break off, you have to reconsider your views. And the expression of the Cotabegemot "philately"becomes clear.

This post was edited by Papaver - 24.09.2010 18: 16

And in order to be a good philatelist, you just need to buy stupid stamps in kiosks and shove them into albums?
You need to know the case anyway.

Read, read, and read.

Pash, that's not the point. Or did you just make me a stone?"
Reread at least your post - and you will understand that a layman can afford not to bring his material and thoughts to the final product, which for a professional is a printed work.

No, Andrey, no cobblestones.
Just, suddenly, philatelists will be offended

For what? I just sketched out the difference between amateurs and non-professionals. Without going into details (there are both professionally working amateurs and amateur working professionals).
By the way, in the described case, there was more than a month of time and guaranteed co-authorship. This is for clarity.

  
These same bastards sometimes say, but who is this - he doesn't have a degree, I'm a candidate of biological Sciences...

Yes, and in the medical environment, there are Ph. D. endocrinologists who do not know what the suture looks like after, say, thyroid resection. The suture after tracheostomy was taken as such.
And you say hawthorn and Stubendorf. At least they look alike.

I can't guarantee that literally:
"We understand this medicine of yours... Who, if I may ask you, nearly dissected a drunken carpenter last year instead of a dead body? If he hadn't woken up, you would have ripped his stomach open... "(Anton Chekhov)
"A colleague Znoiko took the merchant's wife Semiramidina's wandering kidney for an abscess and made a test puncture, which soon followed exitus letalis " (aka)

The fact is that the material at the disposal of collectors is a gold mine. .......

Collector to collector - discord. I know collectors who sometimes say that labels are written "from a fool". In fact, what difference does it make what is written on that piece of paper, because the wings do not become less colored from this.
However, some professional entomologists also sin by" inventing " labels.
So, "not all that glitters is gold."

You didn't guess right. I'm Sharikov.

"And you, in the presence of people with university education, give advice on a cosmic scale and cosmic stupidity!" (F. F. Preobrazhensky "

"And you, in the presence of people with university education, give advice on a cosmic scale and cosmic stupidity!" (F. F. Preobrazhensky"

And I am educated Sharikov

Pash, that's not the point. Or did you just make me a stone?"
Reread at least your post - and you will understand that a layman can afford not to bring his material and thoughts to the final product, which for a professional is a printed work.

So both are bad, and another, when a dissertation is made on plagiarism and faunal falsifications, when it came to printed works, but it did not come from real (not fictional) collection material... Titled scoundrels without primary knowledge are much more dangerous in science compared to a stingy knight who just hides, even out of laziness, his collection, but does not litter science with the publication of baseless shit. But "collector" is sometimes almost a dirty word (there have been cases), and the danger of those who are not even capable of "philately", came to publish and defend themselves in order to make their own horse "contribution to science", the bazaar is much less. But in vain, because we are not shooting there, the "direction of the main strike" should not be there.
Of course, both sides should move, do one common thing, this has already been said more than once and is recognized by everyone. In the end, for an attentive specialist, even the local fishing reports can give some benefit, at least partially justifying our existence. So after all, they are not yet seen at close range, judging by the already released CC. Only forumchane and follow each other's interesting finds.
Once (a long time ago, though) I asked E. M. Antonova, God rest her soul, about her list of moths of the Ministry of Defense, what, they say, how to understand this: "The author does not have exact data on distribution. In the collections, it is constantly mixed (not by the author, of course) with the previous type" (it was about Brephos (then still) notha and parthenias). Or the moth specialist, who, at least in the center, could not pass anything by in print on moth, and sometimes even on scales in general, and who was not even a specialist himself, used for faunal reports not even collections of serious collectors (horribile dictu!), but simply" collections " of kindergartens and other organizations. elementary school students? Even a blind man can tell the males of these species apart. I asked: is there any place to bring us faunal information, M. B. to you, E. M., so that it can be used? I would immediately drop you a few specific points (by the way, they are quite significant in area) on the MO, and I could show you the material. Do you keep a file cabinet? No, he says, only according to literary sources and personalities, and taking private information into account by type is painfully difficult.
But today, although there are computers, databases are much easier to maintain. There should be oncoming traffic on both sides, teapots should also not be clogged and neglected. But the primary thing is the demand for information, and if the office is comfortable without it, then what to expect...

Namesake, it's good that you are so informed and rhetorically savvy.
But - not at the right address.
Yes, and we are talking about SPECIFIC MATERIAL that would significantly supplement my fees. And a specific proc...research Institute of 2 good articles, which would have already been published by now.
So the phrase "But it is the demand for information that is primary, after all, and if the office is comfortable without it, then what to expect..." in this case does not make sense.
Although it is said smartly, yes.

This post was edited by Papaver - 24.09.2010 20: 07

I don't know what's wrong with the word collector. In the word hobby... I still don't know what my hobby or profession is. The fact that the collector is clear and so. Yesterday I straightened davydovi, very nice. Not to fanaticism, but... I'm glad I got this copy for myself.
And in the West, I can assure you that they love collectors. Because thanks to them, collections grow, and not in the form of mattresses, but in the form of hundreds or thousands of delivered samples.
By the way, a number of our curators do not know how to spread butterflies, but this is just by the way. It's like a psychiatrist who knows the difference between Stendhal syndrome and Sergeant Bertrand syndrome, but doesn't know the definition of oligophrenia.
I once sent paratypes to a museum as a gift, and in response to me-do you know, my dear, we somehow did not learn how to spread butterflies, it's such a hassle to look for someone who can spread them. Next time, take it easy and bring it to ... ourselves.
from Barnaul!
Trouble - trouble

This post was edited by Yakovlev - 24.09.2010 20: 21