About tropics, merchants, and personal preferences

  
Salix: "It is interesting to ask amateur collectors: if the laws prohibit private characters from collecting military firearms or drugs (each type of bag from each region, with a label), but the collector really, really wants, then it is possible?"

Entalex: You can, but be careful.

Dear Entalex, why are you doing this? I didn't want to participate in any further discussion, but I couldn't stand it after reading your post. You understand everything by 300%, but here, I'm sure, you're just being sarcastic.
What can I do?! Is it illegal to acquire, carry and store firearms (Article 222 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation)? Purchase, store and sell drugs (Articles 228, 228-1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation)? Well, you can go too far that way... That way, you can recognize for se6ya permissible and theft, and...I won't continue. I think Salix, in the heat of an argument, gave a not entirely correct example: you can't put insects, firearms, and even drugs on the same board as collectibles (collecting) objects. But your answer... If this is a joke, then believe me, it's not a good one.

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 15.01.2009 15: 34

Dear Entalex, why are you doing this? I didn't want to participate in any further discussion, but I couldn't stand it after reading your post. You understand everything by 300%, but here, I'm sure, you're just being sarcastic.
What can I do?! Is it illegal to acquire, carry and store firearms (Article 222 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation)? Purchase, store and sell drugs (Articles 228, 228-1 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation)? Well, you can go too far that way... That way, you can recognize for se6ya permissible and theft, and...I won't continue. I think Salix, in the heat of an argument, gave a not entirely correct example: you can't put insects, firearms, and even drugs on the same board as collectibles (collecting) objects. But your answer... If this is a joke, then believe me, it's not a good one.

Well, Dmitrich, we're not at the prosecutor's office. There is certainly some sarcasm in this answer. And how else can you answer such ridiculous Salix comparisons?

Well, Dmitrich, we're not at the prosecutor's office. There is certainly some sarcasm in this answer. And how else can you answer such ridiculous Salix comparisons?

I think we should be more tolerant of each other. But I'm glad I wasn't wrong about the true meaning Your statement. Well, a sarcastic joke, just a joke.

No, my dears, you can't collect weapons or drugs.
Comparisons like these are completely unnecessary. When a colleague goes - he knows, yes, I break the law, but I take risks. Everyone who travels to other countries understands that this is so.
Everyone is ready for meetings with crooks, customs officers, border guards, bandits. Well, how else... Bears, beskormitsa. Doesn't anyone remember a nice guy from Novosibirsk who died in Uzbekistan from a perforated ulcer? And one Ukrainian who had a heart attack on Vancha. And one volzhanin, who was robbed and hitchhiked from hell. If the field workers are not ready for this, then they are not field workers.
Therefore, be careful, carry a traumatic gun with you, do not skimp on a first-aid kit and grub, study the law in other countries and do not get into trouble. You need to respect other countries. And their laws. But, believe me, if we strictly followed the letter of the law - and we, and the British, and the Germans - we would know only our own countries and would build our conclusions on the basis of absurdly small material. Therefore-catch, try to legalize, engage in entomology. It's a good thing we have this case.
I actually find it funny that there is such a heated discussion going on here.You can catch it, you can't. What's the point? Someone can, because he wants, and someone can not, because he can not.
I sincerely wish you all good luck. And when our guys get caught in Peru, and someone gloats-it's just a tragedy. I know if they were selling cocaine, they'd be raping Indians. Then it serves you right. They were just catching butterflies... I was in Peru. There are terrible mountains, wilds, you can only catch along rivers, near roads or in the highlands. And there were also problems with customs. I didn't complain, but I didn't hear any criticism from entomologists.

No one wants to understand anyone. No one here is gloating. By the way, I also signed a petition for clemency for our businessmen who were imprisoned in India last year. I don't really like them, though.

Salix,you should be more careful with your conclusions!Dmytrych also exhibited in the "photos of collections" section,and I remember that he was in "your team"...This is nothing less than spitting at a colleague!(Dmitritch, don't be offended that I mention it in the press.So it turns out that all disputes on the forum consist of examples, comparisons and links.I am deeply sympathetic to your collection (what I saw),so lovingly assembled and decorated.No kidding!

Thank you, DISAF, for complimenting my collection. But you don't need to protect me from Salix. I'm not offended with him at all. "Show off in front of your friends," - what's so offensive about that? Of course, everyone wants to demonstrate the fruits of their work, hear feedback from colleagues, their friendly advice, see admiring glances - this, you know, encourages further research. If you want, then all this in jest, parody-mockingly (kindly) can be called this way - "show off". Like a fly on glass! This is the only way I took Salix's words. And I won't make any far-fetched assumptions that he wanted to prick someone.

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 15.01.2009 17: 20

Thank you, DISAF, for complimenting my collection. But you don't need to protect me from Salix. I'm not offended with him at all. "Show off in front of your friends," - what's so offensive about that? Of course, everyone wants to demonstrate the fruits of their work, hear feedback from colleagues, their friendly advice, see admiring glances - this, you know, encourages further research. If you want, then all this in jest, parody-mockingly (kindly) can be called this way - "show off". Like a fly on glass! This is the only way I took Salix's words. And I won't make any far-fetched assumptions that he wanted to prick someone.

About " showing off "with the collection, Dmitrich, you're the one who went to Salix...But to be honest with himself, he meant it in a very different way.

You know, we argue so much
. In fact, these are very unpleasant lessons and we need to learn and teach each other to avoid them
.. and all this is and will
be Let's not wake up to reproach each other and even more so our colleagues in the shop who got into trouble, but just be more careful, smarter. Log in - you are a professor, a specialist in the group, and you can also read lectures in Chinese on genetics. And everything will be Yunnan, Tibet and Sichuan. And the money for the flight will be paid. And then they'll pay you back. And the car will be given and taken.
The example is not very good. Although my fellow botanists-not even professors-managed to travel around Xinjiang 2 times and take out the herbarium, and together with the Chinese, legalno

Friends, don't you think that the whole discussion has long turned into a terrible flood?
As long as there is demand, there will be supply. And it doesn't matter who pays for it or how. But they will always pay. The fee for the collector's work may vary and most often (even ALWAYS) depends on the personal relationship between the buyer and seller. Or will someone here challenge the fact that the exchange of material is not a process of buying and selling? What "thank you" from a respected person can not be considered payment for work? Money paper is only an equivalent. So let's congratulate each other. We're all comers here! Only we often pay in different monetary units (money, material, thank you, mention in the article, help in determining, etc.)

And I would not compare these so different concepts. "You can't put a thank-you note in your pocket."You can't spread thanks on bread," But thanks can warm the soul. No, for me it is fundamentally important who will pay for it and how. And an exchange is not a sale. If only because an absolutely equivalent exchange in our business can never be achieved.

About " showing off "with the collection, Dmitrich, you're the one who went to Salix...But if he was being honest with himself,he didn't mean it that way.

What meaning Salix wanted to put into his statement "show off ", only he knows for sure. We can only talk about how we understood it. My understanding doesn't match yours. And I honestly stated my interpretation. For me, this is not a "spit in my direction".
I agree with a number of other forumchan-probably all already enough flood. The topic has exhausted itself.

Question for participants who have a negative attitude to selling insects:
SO WHY DO YOU DISLIKE MERCHANTS SO MUCH?????
WHAT HARM DID THEY DO TO YOU???

Please explain your negative attitude. I just read it: "I don't like it, I don't sell it, I don't buy it, and I won't." These really do seem like super-valuable ideas.

And it is not necessary all under one comb. After all, not all Germans were fascists during the war.

Awesome, cheslovo.

Oh, and it struck a chord with everyone... And all from the fact that you do not need to be so categorical in your judgments. In short, we will have to clarify our position once again.
1) My personal attitude towards merchants does not fit into the alternative "I love-I don't like". It's just that I'll never be a merchant myself. And I do not evaluate people by belonging to any group that is distinguished by any attribute (professional, etc.), but by their personal qualities.
2) Personally, I do not sell or buy the material. And I won't. I'm not interested and don't like it. The others are free to do as they please.

Heh-heh, let's go for the third round?
I don't think it's worth it, it's unlikely that anyone will be able to change the individual position of everyone on this issue. Choose your partners and companions according to your moral aspects and do what you love.

It's amazing how many deaf people there are on the forum, I'm just amazed. Everyone hears what they want to hear.
Let's still learn to listen to each other and fantasize less.

Sorry for the sharpness: it hurt.

And the theme of the people nra-a-vits!!!No, no,and those who have repeatedly disowned the "flood"get into the dispute.And Dmitrich comments on my statements, inviting me to discuss...or to argue... or to the flood?..

And the theme of the people nra-a-vits!!!No, no,and those who have repeatedly disowned the "flood"get into the dispute.And Dmitrich comments on my statements, inviting me to discuss...or to argue... or to the flood?..

Yeah, DISAF, you got me! But we're all human... As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I try to disown the flood, stop succumbing to provocations. But, apparently, "weak in the knees": I can't keep silent

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 16.01.2009 17: 58

Yeah, DISAF, you got me! But we're all human... As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I try to disown the flood, stop succumbing to provocations. But, apparently, "weak in the knees": I can't keep silent

Well, thank God, Dmitrich, so you are a normal living person!
And the topic, in the course, can not be closed in any case.There is always an element of competition in collecting.Always someone has more, someone is more beautiful, someone is a professional, and someone is a "self-taught sucker" and from time to time people need to speak out(read "blow off steam")
And how many times in disputes do suckers and pros switch places?It happens several times in one post... Lovely ...

Bloody gebnya is once again suffocating honest merchants. We urgently need to collect signatures for protection.

Bloody gebnya suffocates the competitors of "servants of the people" (Mi-8 disaster in Altai):
"The facts coming from the mass media, unfortunately, give reason to believe that the cause of the tragedy in Altai was helicopter hunting, which is prohibited by law and is poaching....Although in the media, mountain goats (the correct name is Siberian ibex) are called the object of hunting, photos obtained from the scene indicate that the hunt was conducted for mountain sheep. Mountain sheep argali (argali) is listed in the Red Book of the Russian Federation, there are only about 200 of them left in our country, " the WWF website reports."

These are the very people who forbid us to pick our noses... And they write laws

  
 
These are the very people who forbid us to pick our noses... And they write laws

Don't worry mikee, the victims of the disaster will be retroactively issued with proper paperwork!Can't people from the president's office play with guns in the wild Altai?And besides, not everyone knows these damn capricorns to their eyes.Papilio on mattresses and Batocera are quite another matter...

Bloody gebnya is once again suffocating honest merchants. We urgently need to collect signatures for protection.

This Salix you "flower" for incomparably "adequate examples". Even like-minded people have already noticed this. I want to note that the emotional background that you like to refer to when blaming opponents is used by you in full. You, dear, are not consistent. In general, this post looks more like a provocation.

And I would not compare these so different concepts. "You can't put a thank-you note in your pocket."You can't spread thanks on bread," But thanks can warm the soul. No, for me it is fundamentally important who will pay for it and how. And an exchange is not a sale. If only because an absolutely equivalent exchange in our business can never be achieved.

Yes, and the correct payment also does not happen? How much does the trapper get and how much does the material then pop up on the burza?
And sometimes "thank you" in an article costs much more than the paper equivalent.
Also, I personally know the victims and know how their material diverges. ALWAYS the most interesting thing first falls into the right hands, and only after that the "mass" goes on sale.

"and there are no hands for miracles, except those that are pure" BG

who determines the correctness of the hands?

Yes, and the correct payment also does not happen? How much does the trapper get and how much does the material then pop up on the burza?
And sometimes "thank you" in an article costs much more than the paper equivalent.
Also, I personally know the victims and know how their material diverges. ALWAYS the most interesting thing first falls into the right hands, and only after that the "mass" goes on sale.

The absurdity of your statement is obvious. Read Yakovlev's posts when he begged Gurko for a new species on Bursa, promising to name it after him. This is a type of woodworm, by the way, and not some micra that can really be overlooked.

 
These are the very people who forbid us to pick our noses... And they write laws

Mikhail, I assure you, no one will forbid us to pick our noses!
Ready to go to war on those who try!

This post was edited by RippeR - 17.01.2009 01: 56

Mikhail, I assure you, no one will forbid us to pick our noses!
I am ready to go to war against those who forbid us to do so!

No need. They'll kill you again." Then who will collect good insects for free?

if you can't even pick your nose, then:
1) no one will allow you to collect insects, especially
2) there will be no need to live

Well, thank God, Dmitrich, so you are a normal living person!
And the topic, in the course, can not be closed in any case.There is always an element of competition in collecting.Always someone has more, someone is more beautiful, someone is a professional, and someone is a "self-taught sucker" and from time to time people need to speak out(read "blow off steam")
And how many times in disputes do suckers and pros switch places?It happens several times in one post... Lovely ...

I am very pleasedto have made you happy, dear DISAF. So, before that, you thought I was an abnormal corpse ?
However, friends, let's be careful of shortcuts. "Self-taught" is normal. By the way, through self-education in some industries, you can reach a fairly high degree of professionalism. But the term "sucker" is more from the field of market dispute, and in a cultural discussion it is permissible to apply it only to oneself. I think you agree, DISAF ?

This post was edited by Dmitrich - 17.01.2009 02: 45

I am very pleasedto have made you happy, dear DISAF. So, before that, you thought I was an abnormal corpse   ?
However, friends, let's be careful of shortcuts. "Self-taught" is normal. By the way, through self-education in some industries, you can reach a fairly high degree of professionalism. But the term "sucker" is more from the field of market dispute, and in a cultural discussion it is permissible to apply it only to oneself. I think you agree, DISAF ?

Dmitritch, you can't understand everything so bluntly!The Russian language is such a rich tool!Have you tried to "read" between the lines and turn on your imagination in addition to everything else?

Bloody gebnya is once again suffocating honest merchants. We urgently need to collect signatures for protection.

Dear Salix, in the pursuit of running out of arguments, you bring absolutely crazy things!Well, look at the f...poo and look at the finger.And never compare these things again.Mammals that do not produce offspring every year, and insects that have 90% planned for death.I still believe that you are a biologist...

And what actually happened is that, as far as I understand, all these costs are included in the price list. Private business of specific sellers. How many of us take out boxes? And we hide three or five cockroaches. Each profession has its own risks.

Well, let's not wonder why sellers rate their insects so expensive!

The absurdity of your statement is obvious. Read Yakovlev's posts when he begged Gurko for a new species on Bursa, promising to name it after him. This is a type of woodworm, by the way, and not some micra that can really be overlooked.

That's what I mean. Read Yakovlev's posts (especially on page 3). I didn't find the word begged for there! Asked and immediately gave and not "mikra" there any. Chat with pro catchers. Ask around, how are your trips planned? who pays for what? Where and how much does the material go? Who views the material first?

All right, here we go again! Salix has done his job and is pretty much rubbing his hands together. Let's get this over with.

Yes, Tigran, shut the fuck up!
Otherwise, we'll all be fighting it out here."
It is also clear that the attitude towards merchants on the forum is ambiguous, there are survey results that generally show the existing picture.
It would be nice if everyone was sympathetic to the "ostrasli" - people earn their bread (this is not drugs, weapons, tiger skins and bones, not live parrots, monkeys, etc.) Questions of honesty are already a separate topic.
After all, how were the largest collections of Rothschild, Staudinger, and Romanov compiled? And by whom?
That Grum-Grzhimailo roamed the mountains just for the idea and the Great Race?

if you don't like it, you've made it clear and justified it. Thanks .

And on the subject: it would be better to find fault with those Russian tourists who get drunk and fuss on vacation in exotic countries.

Question for participants who have a negative attitude to selling insects:
SO WHY DO YOU DISLIKE MERCHANTS SO MUCH?????
WHAT HARM DID THEY DO TO YOU???

Please explain your negative attitude. I just read it: "I don't like it, I don't sell it, I don't buy it, and I won't." These really do seem like super-valuable ideas.

And it is not necessary all under one comb. After all, not all Germans were fascists during the war.

Awesome, cheslovo.

I have already stated many times WHAT EXACTLY I don't like about merchants. Find it, don't be lazy. Everything is pretty clear. Next, Convexus. The new type was sold on Bursa, respectively, from this I conclude that it did not pass the right hands

I have already stated many times WHAT EXACTLY I don't like about merchants. Find it, don't be lazy. Everything is pretty clear. Next, Convexus. The new type was sold on Bursa, respectively, from this I conclude that it did not pass the right hands

Or maybe he passed the correct, but non-specialized hands in this group? Do you need to look for the right "right" hands all over the country/world? Roman, your position has long been clear, it is not condemned (why should it?). But why go to the point of absurdity in arguments?

Convexus. The new type was sold on Bursa, respectively, from this I conclude that it did not pass the right hands

The same "isolated" case or exception to the rule. Or maybe mikee is really right. but look at the statistics: how many thousands of insects and how many hunters are brought and sold, and how many of them are really rare. In addition, do you know that every trapper, in addition to the commercial one, always carries a scientific order? For example, do you need anything from the Far East or Sakhalin? I can search for it.
And in general, let's close the topic.

Or maybe the right hands just didn't have enough pockets with money, because not all specialists are still in parallel and kommersants?