Wasp nests

What, Ezooox? We don't know any of them. This is you winter and summer one color green snake, and I have for a serious Forum, a serious nickname-initials. The same ones, from the full name, that (their own) for some reason, you're afraid to shine like a particularly dangerous wanted criminal. However, you continue to amaze! What is the specific shape of the nest for a nymph? In the form of a rodent? Stop using hallucinogens and learn how to fall in love, starting in Akron and ending in Telson. And then you'll get to the shape of the nests. Maybe. Otherwise, you'll find out that I can determine the sex of bumblebees, males that are laid in ten pieces in one cell after one place, and I'll remember everything else, and my memory is excellent. I didn't want to embarrass you so much in public, but I feel like I'll have to.

I have for a serious Forum, a serious nickname

Sy

Ezoks, better tell us about scoliosis)) And about the tundra

And we have a lot of vespulas this year - all the apricots were gnawed. I found one nest in early June. So I sat down on the ground to map the famous P. nimpha nest built on an asparagus stalk, and then I saw the queen germanica twisting in the air and trying to get up my ass. It turned out to be a burrow. The next time, a week later, it was no longer the uterus that curled, but about five workers. Just the right size for a family with a nest to carefully move home. But I don't need it, just an extra hassle would be. And a lot of hornets, as soon as the first workers appeared, literally in one week destroyed four nests of P. nimpha and one of P. gallicus, that is, all that were laid on the registration site this year. This has never happened before in my memory. In 2013, the hornets were also annoying, but a couple of polist families survived, and the rest of the predators were destroyed for a whole month. But this time, obviously, the hornet's nest is very close and very strong: hungry foragers are still dissecting the biotope that has been emptied of policies.

Roma, and scolias in the topic about hornet's nests? You'd better tell me about the scolias ' nests, I haven't seen them."

Come on, no need, I would honestly say that I didn't touch it because I couldn't transfer it)))
Naobrot, it's a hassle to watch the nest on the street, unlike the nest on the balcony, especially since they don't ask to eat germanics, but get them themselves)
And science is silent about the germanic depression, and this is not the first time it happens, and it can be quite local, for example, in the second half of the 90s, Germanics died out on the sea coast, just west of my habitat, it's only 60 km from us, it was a terrible sight - not a single Germanic, two weeks of despondency ))

Scoliasis nest?? Here it is, by the way, taken yesterday, probably-scolia in her old age got a house, completely decrepit))

Roma, it is immediately clear that your memory is no longer the same. Well, the year before last, I dug a nest the size of a basketball in the fall, and, as it turned out in the process, there were still more live wasps there than in this rudimentary July one. If I wanted to, I'd dig up something else. But why? This is not my field, and laboratory devices for high-quality observation of vespin nests are very complex. And you, Roma, do not watch your nests at all, you only watch the movement of wasps at the tap. Have you ever looked in the cell, even if it's the same pages? All the fun is right there, inside!





Just admit it: this is the first time you've seen these guys. Although, most likely, they are swarming in your nest right now. Have you ever wondered why the debit and credit rates, the number of pupated larvae and hatched wasps don't match? Although, most likely, you didn't even notice that it didn't match. Do you know how many larval instars polistov have? And how long does each one last? In general, a poor observer from you: I put the nest in the tray, put it on the balcony, took it out a week later, looked - there were more wasps, and cells too - " Wow, I'm a cool researcher!"

You have the same careless attitude to everything: here I found a nest of catamenes, and some pitchers, judging by their appearance, are still in the process of planting, took a picture and went on my way. But this is the most incomprehensible species, the biology of which has not yet been studied, at least on the territory of Ukraine. What a job that could be done!

But now, in all seriousness: what do you think is so special about the shape of P. nimpha nests, especially when you consider that you can't distinguish it from a dominant? I'm really curious, maybe I missed something!?

As for scolia nests, here's a simple question for you: do they exist? And then different authors write diametrically opposite things: who is talking about a simple hole dug in the ground under a paralyzed larva, with a categorical postscript "does not build nests", and who is talking about a camera, with rammed walls glued together with saliva, and this is, sorry, called a "cell". And where there is a cell, there is a nest. Unfortunately, I didn't have a chance to observe it myself. Although once upon a time I tried to put maculata to the female in a jar with earth larvae of some lamellar whiskers. But apparently it wasn't a foraging species, because after a cursory sniff, the wasps ignored them.

This post was edited by ENO-07/28/2015 01: 03

Wow, what a big catamenes nest! Apparently, this is a record, 25 cells! Only it is obviously old, wasps have already come out of two cells, one cell was left open, apparently the mother wasp died and did not have time to repair it. But here's what's in the remaining 22, is it really doom? If not death, then only if it is removed during the OS exit period, that is, not all oss have yet managed to exit. You could open it and see.

Carcharot, I generally counted 23 at the beginning, now I counted 24 And the nest is residential, in principle, I was also very surprised by the size, but before that I didn't see many nests, it will be 4e, and before that all the old ones were. There were a maximum of 4 cells. But I thought that for this view, obviously, a lot of cells is the norm. In addition, it is possible that the fact that the season turned out to be wet affected the dry one, such nests are not very easy to make, especially in this flight on the flock dry settling down and even there are no bochags in the near future. Zoto has ruins and huge boulders where nests are built.

Ezox, you found something to compare-to dig a nest in the fall, and move the nest in the spring with the preservation of life potential and without population loss.

And I do and watch what I like. And there are no such parasites in my nest of polistov, cells for observation are quite accessible. So I can only sympathize with those polists who have this wound up In my nest in the evening of polists - I can't get through, so everything is normal

As for the differences between nests, I will write how to distinguish them only after you write how to distinguish nymphs from dominoes in the video ))))

What kind of camera, what kind of saliva? Well, Esox, you give, like such a great researcher, and scolia is not derived)) after laying the egg, the larva of the bronzer (I did not bring out the maculate) crawls freely, begins to pupate, and then scolia develops in it. I had it like this, only the scolia escaped.
And maculata lives on rhinos, too, like a well-known fact even in Fabre, in my opinion, is described, and you don't even need to go to Africa for rhinos))) Only here's the trouble, you have the same maculata die out after mid-June, htya in other places for some reason they still surf the expanses of the universe at the end of August)

Here are pictures of flies(large), and an open cell with larvae, the flies there were even smaller, approx. 1.5 mm in length, this is where instead of a cocoon a lot of small larvae/pupae were

Yes, exactly, 24 (at what time of day I counted, and even after the expedition...), but still, I have never seen so much.
So, it turns out that the males have already left (from two cells), and in the rest - pupae of females or infection. Only with flies it's you of course annealed.

Where did you go?? Don't they winter together and come out at the beginning of the season? )
And what's the difference, flies and hymenoptera can be, diptera - only flies)))

Into the light of day, where else. The difference in the day of the exit can be large, and if there are pupae and holes from the exit, then some have already left, and some are "preparing", isn't that clear???

It is clear of course, but after all, the output is in the spring, with a difference of 5 days, well, + - 10 days, and now-the end of July, summer is in full swing, where are they preparing to go? This nest is made this season, not last

It is clear of course, but after all, the output is in the spring, with a difference of 5 days, well, + - 10 days, and now-the end of July, summer is in full swing, where are they preparing to go?

And then what does the pupa do there? I repeat for the last time: if there is a pupa in one cell, and there are exit holes in the others, then the nest is in the process of being released by the wasps (in extreme cases, sooo large parasites came out of the holes, which does not change the essence of the matter, the wasps will soon come out). The difference in release dates can be very large. The day before yesterday, a female Parodontodynerus came out of a nest built in 2014, and her sisters and brother came out in June.

This nest is made this season, not last

Even if this is the case (which would mean that this species has two generations), they are still coming out now, since the pupae are in the cells. The number of generations, by the way, is a question. I believe this view should have two.

And then what does the pupa do there? I repeat for the last time: if there is a pupa in one cell, and there are exit holes in the others, then the nest is in the process of being released by the wasps (in extreme cases, sooo large parasites came out of the holes, which does not change the essence of the matter, the wasps will soon come out). The difference in release dates can be very large. The day before yesterday, a female Parodontodynerus came out of a nest built in 2014, and her sisters and brother came out in June.

This is a completely different case, delayed release dates and-

Everything is very simple. The nest can be removed for reliability , placed in the grid and continue monitoring
And then - there don't seem to be many options
1) there will be no exit of catamenes, they will go to winter in the pupal state-everything can be.
2) exit will occur, and acc. there will be an exit in other nests, which, I think, are quite a few in that place.
Acc. to:
2. a - new fresh nests of the second generation will be discovered, then-the conclusion is obvious.
2. b new nests will not be found, and then-either I could not find new nests, or the imagos went to spend the winter, yes, there is some uncertainty, I will think about it, maybe I will write them a letter to clarify)

I saw katamenes in July, on a clover patch. I really don't know if he ate on it or just sat there - he flew away very quickly. I didn't have time to take a picture. But I couldn't confuse it, you can't confuse it with other representatives of the local fauna. Carcharoth, is the species identity of this katamenes completely clear or not yet? Maybe I'm too suspicious, but in foreign photos K. dimidiatus is something completely different from our color: sharply tricolor, yellow-black-red. For example. And I came across two-color samples only in photos of domestic authors, including yours. Well, those that I saw in nature and in the collection of Alexander Valeryevich are also more likely two-color. Geographical variability? Another subspecies (there are as many as four described), or still a species? Maybe a new one?

Carcharoth, is the species identity of this katamenes completely clear or not yet? Maybe I'm too suspicious, but in foreign photos K. dimidiatus is something completely different from our color: sharply tricolor, yellow-black-red. For example. And I came across two-color samples only in photos of domestic authors, including yours. Well, those that I saw in nature and in the collection of Alexander Valeryevich are also more likely two-color. Geographical variability? Another subspecies (there are as many as four described), or still a species? Maybe a new one?

From the specific point of view, it is clear - this is Katamenes dimidiatus, from the "tricolor" from Greece or Mongolia, except for the color, it does not differ in anything, including the genitals of males. Another thing is that the intraspecific taxonomy of this species is not all clear, since I have almost no material and data on all these subspecies, and there are even more described, just some of them have already been brought together. J. Gusenleitner says that this is rather a nominative subspecies, other colleagues do not say anything about the subspecies, but no one in the form of no doubt about it. So you can safely call our species Katamenes dimidiatus and describe its biology (I found a fresh nest here the other day, but the larvae overheated in the car and died, so it didn't work out very well...). And what is now called "Katamenes tauricus" is a different species, it lives in China and is different, barely noticeable, but very stable on the genitals and coloration of the antennae.

Esox, that's all very well, so what about the method you used to distinguish between nymphs and dominates? Or don't you want to know how I tell nests apart?

I didn't know about scolium, in principle, the larva of the bronzer that I dug out of the stump could already be in such a chest, so I don't know what I don't know.

And about the nest of katamenes - well, you gave it away)))) What a version you have.. Where did you see the breed there, it's a shikaturka-bang bang and you're done. Then, logically, bring it to the balcony and put it under the net to see who hatched, and then release it where it should be.
Elementary))

Ezoooks! Scientific benefits-this is from the series "the economy should be economical" )) The science is that the benefit often comes from where you don't expect it, from a combination of actions, and not equally, as your officials demand.
In general, "no need" and "no scientific use" is a good excuse , you go the right way )

The nymph on the board is probably a dominulus)

Hierophis, the problem is that when you defend the plaster with a crowbar (or whatever it is), no matter how quickly the pots fall apart. They are very fragile! At least the Eumenes are fragile, I don't know exactly about the Katamenes, I haven't found any nests. Although, maybe there this plaster is already a solid piece left, it remains only to pry... Then yes. But in the photo, this is not visible at all-a stone with a stone.

Roman Rakochy, still correctly written, "dominated", although many respected people, both in our country and in the West, at one time made a mistake on this.

Hierophis, how do I distinguish nymphs from dominoes? In Donetsk, it is very simple: in all our nymphs, the last sternite is completely black (this option is extremely rare for our dominuls), and the penultimate one is always interrupted with a yellow sash along the back edge (for dominuls it is solid). The platband must be fitted with a wide transverse black sash on the back (for dominals , it is different). Well, the artenn flagella, which is not darkened from above, is still an exception, not the rule. In general, the color is dominated by black, but this is already a subjective sign, you can't formally describe it. That's how I determine it based on a set of signs (plus a bit of intuition). Oddly enough, I determine 100% correctly - tested for males. But this only works well with our local polysts. The color varies very much geographically. The pattern of the nymph's platypus is very variable - up to pure yellow (in Donetsk, there were no options even approaching this state). But especially interesting are specimens from the Crimea, both of them and with svistopljask sternites. But I haven't finished studying them yet, so I'll write to you later. It is a pity that these are just females (workers), if they were pairs from certain families - the task would be very simplified.

Not only the morphology, but also the ethology of these two species varies geographically. The nymph very rarely settles in shelters, more often-openly on vegetation. Dominant - only in shelters. And this situation is typical for the Donbass, Central and Northern Ukraine, in the south it is almost diametrically opposite: the nymph settles only in shelters, and the dominant-both there and there. Here is such a riddle.

Now come on, Hierophis, give me your miracle method of distinguishing nests. I collected a lot of nests and made all sorts of measurements. Against the background of the strongest intraspecific variation in their size and shape, I did not find any significant interspecific differences, except that all linear parameters of the nymph's nests are on average significantly smaller than those of the dominant. Which is to be expected, given the difference in average body size.

Ezox, well, you write for a long time, you have already been waiting for a topic about the cohort

Catamenes ' nests are very, very strong. Obviously, they use some kind of secret for strengthening, but the fact is that picking a cell is almost like beating off a shoe

Thank you, of course, for a lengthy description of the ways of differences, but you are again a fool, I asked you to describe how you identified exactly on those videos,and what features you used. Here in my nest - dominuli. This is clearly visible on the tip, both on the sternite and on the top. It is the same for all females in the nest. And they have different platbands, some with a stripe, some yellow, and antennae too, and this is in the same nest. Although this can be explained by mating females with different males, what does science say about this?

And what the hell is this about the south of Ukraine and nymphs in shelters? I certainly don't claim to be a sample, but I haven't seen any nymph nests in the shelter, but I've seen dominul both in shelters and on the grass. Or at us ischo not the south? )))

Although you did not say what I asked, but told again the same bagpipes about the mustache, zhopki and muzzle ) I will say that first of all, I myself noted - the nests of nymphs are small, and most importantly - according to my observations, nymphs always build a nest with cells horizontally to gravity, and diminutives even on grass-wrap the nest with cells down. That's it.

Oh, you started remission, Roma, but quickly came to naught. I wish I hadn't thought that sduchay wasn't hopeless. Jinxed it! Do you understand that when determining whether it's live, whether it's based on photos or videos , the signs are the same (only, of course, it's not always possible to distinguish all of them in images). That's exactly how I defined it. Rather, I did not define it, but assumed it. Turn on your brain. Watch the first video first and you'll see the last yellow sternite. Watch the rest of the videos and photos - you will see the darkened top of the antennal flagella and the black last sternites. So either there are two species, or an unknown form of color of one of them. The first option seems more likely. Got it?" Or will the third circle - the fourth square have to be explained?

Do you understand that when determining whether it's live, whether it's based on photos or videos , the signs work the same (only, of course, you can always distinguish all of them in images). That's exactly how I defined it. Rather, I did not define it, but assumed it. Turn on your brain.

You know Esox, with such encryption, not every mosk, even the included one, will cope. I realized that somewhere the particle " not " is missing, but.. ))))
Esox, in that video the wasp is visible from above, and the tip is strongly retracted, there may well be a dark sternite with a yellowish layer on the tergite. Well, if not, then time will tell, inspect a few individuals from that nest, and that's all. In general, it was necessary to start with this, napsiat-on the first video-you can see a list with this and that, brevity-sister talatna, Ezox

Roma, you need to go to school to work as a teacher, but in any case not biology (it was not enough for the children to learn in you the "X-ray view" of sternites from above and other flies), but Russian. Rearrange what pleasure you will experience checking dictation. The only trouble is that the Russian language in Ukrainian schools has already been canceled, and you don't know Ukrainian yourself. And you don't seem to have heard about such things as punctuation rules and the use of capital letters at all.

Ezooox, are you okay? ))) What does it matter how the abdomen is removed, if the wasp is generally removed from above, from the back, you know? Or is she sitting belly up on the board? ))) Sternite is not visible there practically, it is, the tip is retracted, and what is there is not clear.

The phrase Ferstein zi-is written without unnecessary and, for this you do not need to learn anything at all, I would have Googled it in Google before writing overseas words))

And where is the guarantee that the specified socket is located cells down? It seems to be just the opposite, according to the description, and the shape of the nest - it is located on an inclined plane, the visor of the well is just such a plane, in the form of a house, too, for me, Ferstein ))
So, alas, your nest doesn't fit.

And I do not know what is there according to your data, but read your favorite Rusina at least, and in general various notes-the nests of dominul are always more nymphs in the general case, and this is consistent with my observations, individual "prosperous families" are nonsense in this case))) And once again, I have not seen any nymph nests in our shelters, only in the steppe, moreover, this is consistent, again, with numerous descriptions of the biology of this species, and articles where it is written about the preference of nymphs to lay nests outside shelters. And about plasticity you bent - well, there are plenty of indications that dominuli are more plastic, and their adaptive threshold is much wider, both in choosing the base of the nest and in the orientation of the nests.

I didn't go after the Catamenes ' nest yesterday because it rained, which is great in itself. I went today!

And there..

This is what the landscapes in the abode of the Katamenes look like


Over the monastery circling burial grounds, guard )) that's it, Ezoks, this is not
huhura-muhry for you


I arrived at the crossing, went down and there is such a picture: several catamenes came out, several lumps were sealed. When they were opened, only one of them was more or less alive katamenes, but also the one with chewed off wings, unable to fly. The female. Together with them were a couple of hefty pupae of roommates - some very large blokes. In one of the cells of the almost svormirovannogo katamenes, some larvae were eating up.. Another one has a swarm of flies, another one has a swarm of larvae instead of a pupa, and another one has a host of pupae of these very small midges. Yes, there are not a few people who want to eat either provisions or the owner of the komorka himself.


And then.. I'm looking.. Something unusual landed on my bike.. And then - on the finger!!

That's it, that's it, Ezox, burst

Fuuh... I was already worried, I thought I'd just burst

But the condition is close to critical )

Все. Feci quod potui, faciant meliora potentes. Medicine is powerless. I will only correct typos so that no one will be confused. Speaking of typos:

Esox, first of all, you should not call the results of the arphagraphy filling station typos(the number of which is generally scary to imagine in the raw text), but you should think about how this is even possible to skip SUCH constructions ))))

As for the pictures of nests-then you have nothing to post, because apparently, you find them only on a patch near your house, just for show))
When I was really interested in polysts, I found 20 nests a day, and I saw so many variants of them that you could not even dream of)

Anyway, Ezox, where are your carp nests?? There is nothing to discuss, you would have posted at least some nests, except for pictures of your flies

Well, you got your finger in the sky! I can't laugh! If all my pictures of polysters alone are summed up, then no matter how quantitatively more came out than all the photos in the entomological branch of this forum combined. And while this case is being loaded, you can probably write a dissertation. I probably take more nest shots in a week than you do in a year. True, I erase many of them after extracting the necessary information for work, and if I set out to save everything, I would need a bunch of hard drives. But also saved darkness and darkness. Moreover, the word "darkness" here should be perceived not in a figurative, but in the original Old Russian sense. So I'll say it again: they won't take you, Roma, to the battle of psychics.

What exactly would you like to see from the life of polistov? There is everything, perhaps, except hunting in natural conditions. This doesn't mean that I didn't see her, just that I didn't happen to have a camera with me at the time.

But your "gravitational-horizontal" nymphs are not idle for me. I just have a strong suspicion that you're messing with the definition of the species. Come on, break it up, prove that you are not only a cool mega-naturalist, but also a mega-determinist. That's all, this was the last Chinese warning, then ignore it.

vespa mandarinia, in principle, everything is simple here, you just need to wait for the end of development, consider the males, since they can be taken into the hands of bart Everything can be, maybe polisty can be all nymphs, but it is better to judge this by above-ground facts))

Ezoooooooo - / / - oooks You just blab me already, Ezox, if you're so smart, where's your nest egg money!? (c)

You took a test, Esox, And what, among the host of photos there is not a single nest of a nymph with cells down? Yes, I won't believe this, because there are always deviations in nature, and if you have such a sample, then you should have at least one nest of nymphs in the shelter, with a "dominant" type of nest.

In general, everything with Ezox is clear. Blah blah blah. Nests of nymphs with cells to the ground will not be(although this doesn't mean that there aren't any, proto a) they're fairly rare b) Esox doesn't have a sample width.)

After that, I hope Esox will honestly tell us how many pieces of original nests he has processed during his fruitful scientific career, and in what territory ?

This post was edited by Hierophis - 29.07.2015 23: 52

Pictures:

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Well, you damn give! ENO, is there really nothing better to do than argue pointlessly with a stubborn know-it-all?
Hierophis, I noticed your signature here, can I write that I am from "Nikolaev (or where you are from) is Russia"?

In a good way, this nest of katamenes had to be taken as a whole, map each cell and carefully study their contents, collect all their inhabitants: midges, flies, spangles, see if there are wasp cocoons in the cells with them or not (there may be stilbums, chrysis, melittobia, sarcophagids, tachins, monodontomerus, encyrtids, pteromalids, humpback flies...), then identify all this, show it to specialists... And so, it's all pampering and "admiring nature". Nothing new, except that there are nests of up to 24 cells, from your observations, we have not yet learned. New fresh nests are not easy to find, usually old ones are found, as they hide fresh ones, usually build on rocks covered with grass, and only when it dries up in autumn can they be seen. By the way, I have an old nest built on a grass stalk! I'll publish it sometime, when I've collected more material. But this, as I said, is difficult, despite the fact that wasps are caught from May to October, there are always few of them, and I was able to follow the female so that she led to the nest only once, and then she already finished it.

As for polistes, the nests of the nymph and the dominant are found in the same way with cells from almost horizontal to directed straight down, the only difference is the barely perceptible larger size of the cells (not nests) in the dominant. And in the south, the nymph very rarely nests on plants, and if it nests, then the nests are always hidden by thick grass, it is not easy to find them. The nymph predominates in attics, and the dominant-on plants and in all sorts of pipes, under overhanging stones, etc. (but both species can nest there, and there, and there). Here is one of the photos of a nymph in the attic, shot in the winter.

Pictures:

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In general, everything with Ezox is clear. Blah blah blah. Nests of nymphs with cells to the ground will not be(although this doesn't mean that there aren't any, proto a) they're fairly rare b) Esox doesn't have a sample width.)

After that, I hope Esox will honestly tell us how many pieces of original nests he has processed during his fruitful scientific career, and in what territory ?

They're a bit slim for a nymph, aren't they a gallicus? Is there a photo of the wasp looking at us with its face?

I found a photo of a nymph on a clematis stalk, cells down, but very old, still on film. I looked at other photos - in total, I found a nymph on plants four times in my entire life! In two nests, the cells were almost straight down, and in two they were obliquely (and not down or sideways, but something in between). I'll show you one of them, too.

Pictures:

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I'm sorry, of course.. But what we see is the nest of a nymph, albeit a strange one.. but the honeycomb is clearly located in cells parallel to gravity, which is well evidenced by the poop that is on the log

And once again I repeat-at us, in the south of the Nikolaev area, there are no Sikh nymphs on attics and roofs. They're all on plants, and I've found lots of them there, and I've got plenty of pictures. For me, real data is important, so when I want to find a nymph, I look for her where she is, and when I want to find a dominula-where there are dominuli ))

And I do what I like, I need to find out about the wintering of imago/2 generations, and I will find out, now that I have found an inexhaustible source of katamenes nests, find fresh nests , and confirm 2 generations, I hope it will not be difficult for me. And if I don't find it, I'll think further Because in the spring katamenes don't appear out of nowhere.

And yes - Nikolaev is Ukraine, as well as the Crimea And in general, in a good way, your message, Carcharot, could have been signorit))

Carcharoth, you reminded me of a large dominula nest that I saw last year, but also this year it was empty.

You don't understand what I said about the dominula's nest?