Entomological labels

japanese hits

chinese were))

My native language is still dearer to my heart...

I also write my geographical maps exclusively in Russian. Anyone who needs it will be translated into any language!
After all, we translate into Russian from English, Japanese, Chinese, German, French. You must respect your native language.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound serious at all. It's like coming to an international conference and basically speaking only the Great and Mighty. And it is better to show respect for the language in competent speech and writing. And do not clog it with all sorts of rubbish.

I'm sorry, but this doesn't sound serious at all. It's like coming to an international conference and basically speaking only the Great and Mighty. And it is better to show respect for the language in competent speech and writing. And do not clog it with all sorts of rubbish.

I don't understand: does an insect lose its value if the label is written in Russian? And let me ask you a question: what do you mean by trash?

I don't understand: does an insect lose its value if the label is written in Russian?

Strange conclusion, I did not write anything like this, I mean that respect for the language has absolutely nothing to do with it.
And by trash, I mean excessive use of slang, obscenities, unjustified use of foreign words and adapted ones from foreign ones, etc.
Yes, I can also add that I write my geographical labels exclusively in Latin/English, while I respect my native language

While filling out the labels, I noticed that most of the species were identified by Linnaeus in 1758, but I didn't understand what he was doing.Have you identified ALL the insects in one year?

This post was edited by Collector-05.08.2011 09: 39

While filling out the labels, I noticed that most of the species were identified by Linaeus in 1758, but I didn't understand what he was doing.Have you identified ALL the insects in one year?

Linnaeus (lat.) this Carl Linnaeus.
Yes, indeed he described a lot of insects in one year.

Collector, you are 16 years old soon, I was in the 11th grade at the age of 16 and then entered the University. Hence the conclusion - you have already had biology lessons. So did they really not tell you anything about "Linaeus" and how, whom and when he "defined"?????

This post was edited by lepidopterolog - 04.08.2011 19: 32

Collector, you are 16 years old soon, I was in the 11th grade at the age of 16 and then entered the University. Hence the conclusion - you have already had biology lessons. So did they really not tell you anything about "Linaeus" and how, whom and when he "defined"?????          

I only crossed the line at 9! and there was never a single mention of Linnaeus!

This post was edited by Collector-04.08.2011 19: 34

Strange conclusion, I did not write anything like this, I mean that respect for the language has absolutely nothing to do with it.
And by trash, I mean excessive use of slang, obscenities, unjustified use of foreign words and adapted ones from foreign ones, etc.
Yes, I can also add that I write my geographical labels exclusively in Latin/English, while I respect my native language

Yes, geography can be written in any language. I personally prefer my native language for my insects (I speak it). People write in Japanese (not an international language at all, but why are we worse off?). But for definitives only Latin.

I only crossed the line at 9! and there was never a single mention of Linnaeus!

My God, what are we heading for? It is not clear that I knew about Linnaeus much earlier and it was from school! I'm 45 now, and I don't remember exactly in what grade I first learned. The guard!!!!

Yes, geography can be written in any language. I personally prefer my native language for my insects (I speak it). People write in Japanese (not an international language at all, but why are we worse off?). But for definitives only Latin.

Of course, you can, just by making labels in the language of international communication (English), you (not necessarily you ) simplify the work of other people, that's all) And no one will remember anyone with a bad word trying to correctly translate this or that geographical name.

  
And by trash I mean <...> unjustified use of foreign words and adapted from foreign ones, etc.

Adapted, - this is, like, in Russian... Or... What do you mean - " trash[I]"?

My God, what are we heading for? It is not clear that I knew about Linnaeus much earlier and it was from school! I'm 45 now, and I don't remember exactly in what grade I first learned. The guard!!!!

As far as I remember, the basics of taxonomy and Linnaeus are taught in class 7 when they go through botany. But up to 9-exactly.

  
Adapted, - this is, like, in Russian... Or... What do you mean - " trash[I]"?

This is like "shopping" , etc. I'm sick of it myself!

  
Adapted, - this is, like, in Russian... Or... What do you mean - " trash[I]"?

Type f in the sense of "prisobosobny". lol

While filling out the labels, I noticed that most of the species were identified by Linaeus in 1758, but I didn't understand what he was doing.Have you identified ALL the insects in one year?

I'll digress a little..
           
Then I have a question ..you're talking about an incredible amount of entomos here. so, why such misinformation of the population?

And why raise English to the international level? With such success, you can also write labels on Esperanto.

And why raise English to the international level?

So it has long been international. I would also prefer Latin as an international language, so that no one is offended. But alas, the language of science has long been English.

Recently, my father looked through the Entomologische Abhandlungen on my desk and exclaimed: "What has come to this! The German magazine is entirely in English!".

If labels are written in the language of the country of capture, this will protect the toponymy from possible translation distortions. People have been working with old material for a long time and somehow manage to avoid reading, say, French localities in English. How is Russian worse than French? There would be accurate necessary information, this is the main thing.

The only authentic toponymy is the original one (not a parochial one of one level or another, of course, but adopted on the scale of the corresponding state), and all translations are checked against it. The transmission standard in English (although American "English" is more or less international today) for most geographical names is not and is not expected. And tomorrow-who can guarantee that this particular language will be international? Until recently, it was not international. So is it necessary to sacrifice the quality and reliability of data today without guaranteeing the future internationality of the currently fashionable language?.. To imagine the feelings of our descendants who understand the English-language names of Russian villages and hamlets, imagine how you would feel today, sorting through the masses of old geographical labels in French or Esperanto found in Russian (!) collections of the corresponding periods... The most (or even only) accurate toponymy is the toponymy in the language of the corresponding country. The rest is paliatives, which are simply forced to be resorted to by those who in practice have to focus not so much on the accuracy of localization of the find, but on making life easier for lazy foreign colleagues. This need can be understood, but the norm should remain the original toponymy, and not its translations, which are not standardized and often mixed.

The rules of label design do not require the desire to be understood by foreigners, but accuracy and unambiguity; these requirements can only be fully met in the original toponymy. You can not make life easier for scientists, risking the accuracy of scientific information; who wants to live easily, let him not engage in science, science should not be guided by him. This also applies to those dear Russians who grab the English "internationality" as a gas mask to protect themselves from Chinese and other outlandish fonts on other people's labels. If the characters are taken out, make a duplicate label for yourself, even in Russian, even in Nanai, but the main Chinese material should remain Chinese, their places are not always correctly transcribed in English. Modern coordinate appendices cannot eliminate either toponymy or - as long as it is present on labels-the requirements for the accuracy and unambiguity of this toponymy.

I'm talking exclusively about labels; and what language to speak at an international conference or publish articles in is absolutely not the same question. [Although I do not feel very proud of the position of the great and powerful (by the way, one of the UN languages), knowing how much our people push when traveling abroad to speak their conferences in their own way, but how absolutely our foreign guests do not try to speak our way at our conferences. They don't learn from us respect and even immunity to foreign colleagues, but we can learn from them respect for ourselves in this matter.]

Non-geographic label data can, of course, be written in a third-party language, but it is most rational not to switch from language to language within the same label, except in cases of specifying Latin abbreviations such as "e. l." and so on.

Here I think: how do I write the current name of my city (before 1939, "Obiralovka") in English? Nothing comes to mind.

That's half the trouble. But if you rely more on local followers than on Danish or Peruvian experts on the fauna of the Moscow region, then certainly do not bother with transcriptions and write in Russian; why then would local entomologists translate their own names back from"English"?

And as for the name changes, although not by the way launched: look on the maps, say, of the XIX century, what was the name of the well-known village of Rodniki (in PTZ)...

That's half the trouble. But if you rely more on local followers than on Danish or Peruvian experts on the fauna of the Moscow region, then certainly do not bother with transcriptions and write in Russian; why then would local entomologists translate their own names back from"English"?

As for the name changes, although not by the word launched: look at the maps of, say, the XIX century, what was the name of the well-known village of Rodniki (in PTZ)...

Yes, I just gave you an example. We have a lot of geographical names that can't be translated into another language: Moscow is Moscow, the Moscow region. this is Moscow reg. , and then how (gibberish turns out)? Here the label should only be in Russian! If I start writing out my city with a transliterate or whatever: I'll throw up myself.

My God, what are we heading for? It is not clear that I knew about Linnaeus much earlier and it was from school! I'm 45 now, and I don't remember exactly in what grade I first learned. The guard!!!!

I'm not happy myself

.. and this is me still the smartest in the class consider, we have that izh caterpillar turns out to be a butterfly probably only 6 people know..(

This post was edited by Collector-05.08.2011 09: 43

Yes, I just gave you an example. We have a lot of geographical names that can't be translated into another language: Moscow is Moscow, the Moscow region. this is Moscow reg. , and then how (gibberish turns out)? Here the label should only be in Russian! If I start writing out my city with a transliterate or whatever: I'll throw up myself.

I'm also for Russian!
why won't it be made international? We have such a territory! we are the whole people!
why it was made an international language, some mediocre country..

I'm also for Russian!
why won't it be made international? We have such a territory! we are the whole people!
why it was made an international language, some mediocre country..

Judging by such posts, you might think that this is trolling.

  
.And I'm also considered the smartest person in the class

We have such a territory! we are the whole people!
why it was made an international language, some mediocre country..

Collector, what are you talking about again about a subject that you don't understand?! I'm sorry to be so blunt, but your militant ignorance is really starting to get on my nerves. This is what kind of country you" mediocre " casually called? Surely not Great Britain? What kind of school is this that you go to? Strange as it may sound, but it would be better if you have such teachers (then all is not lost, there is still enough time to patch up the gaping holes in your education). But if they are not teachers, but a student they have caught... It was a bad case then. I apologize in advance to the moderator for the harshness of his statements . But, as they say, there is no strength to remain silent.
Here are a few links on the topic under discussion
http://www.5english.ru/English/Why_English.htm
http://www.genon.ru/GetAnswer.aspx?qid=18f...01-67440e26f311
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Английский_язык

IMHO, the dispute is scholastic. I think you can write to anyone you like. If a label from, say, Hungary says " Gödöllő, Pest megye, Hungary. А Rákos-patak partján. "In 5 minutes you can Google Goedelle, Pest medje and Rakos patak. The same applies to Russian-language data.
PS. Japanese people diligently transcribe their names in Latin, for which we thank them very much.

And here's what else I thought. I spent the whole winter sorting out Central Asia on mattresses.Fees of the 70s of the last century. Many localities have changed their names. Which ones, in this case, are modern or old, to indicate on the labels?

And here's what else I thought. I spent the whole winter sorting out Central Asia on mattresses.Fees of the 70s of the last century. Many localities have changed their names. Which ones, in this case, are modern or old, to indicate on the labels?

M-yes... The dilemma... That's why people come to the necessity of specifying geographical coordinates in labels. Although, with modern capabilities, it is not difficult to determine the name of a locality in 1970, for example. Seek, and ye shall find. There is only one rule - it is more accurate to indicate the place of collection at the time of the collection itself. And that's it.

I'm not happy myself

.. and this is me still the smartest in the class consider, we have that izh caterpillar turns out to be a butterfly probably only 6 people know..(

In fact, the caterpillar first produces a pupa, and only then a butterfly.

To Dmitrich: Great Britain is no longer great.

That's all, it's time to rename the topic to "Patriotism in the preparation of entomological labels", not otherwise

Yes, it seems that they started with them... But patriotism really has nothing to do with it. We will not stupefy our opponents. Patriotism – Russian, for example-would be if someone demanded to label Chinese material in Russian. Patriotism – and where Americans and Germans persist in speaking their own languages at Russian scientific forums and consider hermeneutical problems to be the problems of the listening side. And here it was mainly about the principle of choosing a language for the exact transmission of toponyms (despite the fact that not all popcenes have established English - language transcriptions-both in our country and in any other country). But it is from Russia to show one English patriotism for all local cases-to deliberately risk the clarity and accuracy of label instructions. As the saying goes, " where does a lad get his Spanish sadness from?"??

This is not a dig at the generally recognized international role of the English language; it is, I repeat, only about the accuracy of geographical indications on labels.

What are you doing here?" We write Russian names in Latin letters and rejoice.
It feels like someone here took the English translation literally.

Here I think: how do I write the current name of my city (before 1939, "Obiralovka") in English? Nothing comes to mind.

Obiralovka distr. everything elementary is simple.
(distr.=district - the district, if any)

This post was edited by Zhuk - 06.08.2011 09: 49

Yeah. And I write Russian names in Cyrillic and also rejoice.
Obiralovka.
It's not a big deal, is it?

  

Obiralovka distr. everything elementary is simple.

By the way, Obiralovka distr. is this the Obiralovsky district of a certain region or the neighborhood of the village of Obiralovka?

By the way, Obiralovka distr. is this the Obiralovsky district of a certain region or the neighborhood of the village of Obiralovka?

district