Entomological labels

What are you doing here?" We write Russian names in Latin letters and rejoice.
It feels like someone here took the English translation literally.

Obiralovka distr. everything elementary is simple.
(distr.=district - the district, if any)

Wow, I'm out for a day.
"Obiralovka" is the old name of the settlement (by the way, the station where Anna Karenina threw herself under the train in the novel of the same name by Leo Tolstoy)
And now it is the city of Zheleznodorozhny.
In general, let's write labels in any language (which one you like). The main thing is that the label must be accurate. And what language it is written in: it doesn't matter.

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 06.08.2011 11: 30

In case someone needs to fill it out in English:
disr. - district-district
reg. - region
-vic area. - vicinity-neighborhood
of vill. - village-village
town, city - city
St. - station -
mt. - mountain - mt
-mountains-mountains, ridge (you can also use range)
If you don't spell a region or mountain system in English, then you can write "Primorye" or, for example, "Caucasus", "Krymea" without any "edges", preferably with the postscript "northern", "southern", "western", "eastern", "central".
Of course, you need to specify the name of the country - Russia, Ukraine, Nepal etc.


I myself write in both Russian and English. I don't bother.
And if I want to mess up, I'll write it in German. No! I will write in Czech!

And here's what else I thought. I spent the whole winter sorting out Central Asia on mattresses.Fees of the 70s of the last century. Many localities have changed their names. Which ones, in this case, are modern or old, to indicate on the labels?

I think that it is necessary to write on the label what is written on the label of the mattress. I.e. fees of the 70s from the East. Kazakhstan - you should write Przhevalskoe or Ust-Kamenogorsk, and not Sary-Terek and Os-Kemen, as it is now. It is likely that you can write a new name in square brackets on the label, for example, Przhevalskoe [Sary-Terek]. I fully agree with A. Elez that toponymy in the original language is the most correct, but - there are many buts... Russian is difficult for most people to understand - that is, it is generally a Cyrillic font - all these words are sch, ch.... So it is very difficult to compare labels in French or English or even Hungarian with labels in Cyrillic fonts (Russian, Kazakh, Mongolian). Agreeing with A. Elez, I am still in favor of the English spelling of geographical labels. I don't think that the label "Russia, Altai Krai, Kalmanskoe district, Shilovo vill." will lead someone to the wrong locality, but writing Shilovo in Russian can lead to errors-the letter W can be misinterpreted as three l's, or lil... Especially handwritten labels... In addition, now save and coordinates. Therefore, the original spelling of a locality in Russian can also be entered in parentheses.... In short, there are no definitive solutions, but take my word for it that a collection that is labeled in Russian will do more harm if it falls into the hands of a Western specialist than a collection with labels in Hungarian.

I remember how my boss went to the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences-deciphered exotic labels (almost Sanskrit - I don't remember exactly, but a completely exotic script).

I remember how my boss went to the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Russian Academy of Sciences-deciphered exotic labels (almost Sanskrit - I don't remember exactly, but a completely exotic script).

Well, Russia doesn't have Sanskrit: the area of Russia is 17,075,200 square kilometers, which makes it the most extensive country in the world and Russian is the state language. language. It should be easier.

China, India, Mongolia, Kazakhstan are also great.
I have such a question - often in some language the names of provinces, districts have an original name-changvat in Tae, aimak in Mongolia, prefecture in Japan, etc. That's the question when writing labels in English whether to write these names-for example, raion, aimak.... Or replace distr. I have repeatedly encountered such a problem and could not find a clear solution for myself.

In case someone needs to fill in the form in English:
< ... > st.-station - station

And in case it is necessary to designate not "station", but a station, then how?

China, India, Mongolia, Kazakhstan are also great.
I have such a question - often in some language the names of provinces, districts have an original name-changvat in Tae, aimak in Mongolia, prefecture in Japan, etc. That's the question when writing labels in English whether to write these names-for example, raion, aimak.... Or replace distr. I have repeatedly encountered such a problem and could not find a clear solution for myself.

In my opinion, you can. If you write "Mongolia, Choybalsan Aimak" - is it clear? The main thing here is not to write iMac.

  
And if I want to mess up, I'll write it in German. No! I will write in Czech!

He who is strong also rapes… Pindosia is strong, hence the broken English as one of the international languages.
But ... "S&P on Friday evening after the markets closed lowered the US credit rating from the maximum "AAA" to "AA+" amid problems with the national debt and the growing budget deficit", i.e. "lower" than the rating of The Isle of Man economy (The Isle of Man). writing labels in the Gaelic (Celtic) language becomes relevant. Czechs have a rest…
And this is despite the fact that 10 % of SASS citizens speak Spanish (the southern "states" require the legalization of bilingualism), another 10 % speak Albanese-Pindos (Maza faka, - tipoo), another 10 % speak Broken-English-Nizhny Novgorod (I have nothing to do with it, - this fse nasty Griboyedov invented), another 10 % speak Japanese-Russian-Chinese-Korean...- ... m. Che ostezza?
Anecdote, almost on the topic (I think I've already told you...). In Zagreb (but not only) in a pharmacy, I ask for cotton wool (it's not hard to guess why... - to push it into a jar from under the detsky nutrition and, dripping nail polish remover on it, - aah! ).
I'm talking about" cotton-wool "in" international " ... it doesn't take her (the saleswoman). I'm nervous: "it is necessary to purge the gauge with disposable cotton wool wad moistened with a special liquid", and this does not fuck her (the saleswoman). I'm talking about contagious (var. - catching), even about "contract" (from the context of my emotional speech, it was clear that contract = catch a disease). Finally, having "prochukhav" in the" tampon "cotton wool wad this very "Wat", asks in the purest Serbian-Croatian: "Do you need cotton wool? Here, crank, on the letter "M", - half an hour brain soars, - no, so as to say that "cotton wool" is needed."
I then completely abandoned the "international" approach. and ital. at the entrance, in the cat. I'm not particularly strong). You come in and say, in the purest Novosibirsk, "so-and-so."… There was not a single time that they did not understand (here I have "Novosibirsk" fingers spread wide...).
And "labels" will understand...

Try it in the Chiantsuz province of Nice on the "international"... Even those autochthonous people who think they understand English will pretend they don't understand a damn thing... Such is the Khryantsuska patriatism.
PYSY. In the" French " part of Belgium - the same thing.

.. broken English as one of the international languages. ... ... And this is despite the fact that 10 % of SASS citizens speak Spanish (the southern "states" require the legalization of bilingualism), another 10 % speak Albanese-Pindos (Maza faka, - tipoo), another 10 % speak Broken-English-Nizhny Novgorod (I have nothing to do with it, - this fse nasty Griboyedov invented), another 10 % speak Japanese-Russian-Chinese-Korean...- ... m. Che ostezza? ...

Everyone knows about broken English. This is not news. Now, for comparison, analyze the level of knowledge of the Russian language, at least colloquially, and show as a percentage what Russian is spoken in the Russian Federation.
Damn flood theme about languages, but cool!

This post was edited by barko - 07.08.2011 14: 46

Uh-huh, and here in the center of Moscow, they can easily ask you to leave your job for not knowing enough spoken English (on New Year's eve, I lost my job where I worked for 3 years without any questions). The client (an American company) was impatient, and my direct employer is happy to try: two of us then left. Maybe that's why I write labels in Russian (already in principle).

  
Damn flood theme about languages, but cool!

This is exactly flood-s!
But for the"language" -that no one pulled...

This post was edited by Justus - 07.08.2011 15: 12

Aha: we tie .

Aha: we're tying up .

Yeah, right now! (fludilnya tightens like a swamp)
Here are some illustrations to the thesis of A. Y. Elez (post 658) that "There is no standard of transmission in English (although American "English" is more or less international today) for most geographical names and is not expected. And tomorrow-who can guarantee that this particular language will be international? Until recently, it was not international. So is it necessary to sacrifice the quality and reliability of data today without guaranteeing the future internationality of the currently fashionable language..."
After "digging" in the mezzanines, here's what we found: the first Rus magazine was published in Latin ( how is it for you? - Confucius's life in Latin?), then there was German, then there was a struggle between German and French, then (in the First World War, he won... English, but with the coming of Hitler to power, in the USSR-AI again became "fashionable" in German, then, Kada Hitler became Kirdyk, - again "tipo English". So what? What language should I use?

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Great "eggs" of Klein photo-to the fact that in the 18th century" even " Germans were dubbed in Latin.
(And Leibniz, I will add friskach, so that waabsche, to the shame of the classics of German philosophy, wrote on ..om khryantsussky).

Anecdote, almost on the topic (I think I've already told you...). In Zagreb (but not only) in a pharmacy, I ask for cotton wool (it's not hard to guess why... - to push it into a jar from under the detsky nutrition and, dripping nail polish remover on it, - aah! ).
I'm talking about" cotton-wool "in" international " ... it doesn't take her (the saleswoman). I'm nervous: "it is necessary to purge the gauge with disposable cotton wool wad moistened with a special liquid", and this does not fuck her (the saleswoman). I'm talking about contagious (var. - catching), even about "contract" (from the context of my emotional speech, it was clear that contract = catch a disease). Finally, having "prochukhav" in the" tampon "cotton wool wad this very "Wat", asks in the purest Serbian-Croatian: "Do you need cotton wool? Here, crank, on the letter "M", - half an hour brain soars, - no, so as to say that "cotton wool" is needed."
I then completely abandoned the "international" approach. and ital. at the entrance, in the cat. I'm not particularly strong). You come in and say, in the purest Novosibirsk, "so-and-so."… There was not a single time that they did not understand (here I have "Novosibirsk" fingers spread wide...).
And "labels" will understand…

A few more sketches:
Egypt. We stop a taxi with a friend. Sanya on a well-set Anglo-Ryazan tsedit - "old city". The taxi driver thinks, then asks again- " old town?". Sanya casually says, " yeh, grand mosk." The taxi driver thinks longer and then asks again: "big mosque?". I interrupt my linguistic exercises and say, " Sanya, he actually speaks Russian."

Greece. I'm trying to explain myself to the seller in English. The seller doesn't understand. The guys get tired of waiting for me and they shout - " Lech, let's go faster!". The seller, hearing Russian, says (in Russian,of course) - "tell me in a human way what you need"

Thailand. I ask the street vendor "how match?". In response, I hear "sora". While I'm trying to figure out what English number the taika has distorted, she hands me a calculator with the number 40.

So it is not yet known which language will be more understandable in 15-20 years, English or Russian.

  

Justus to Alex (strictly confidential):

In fact, the caterpillar first produces a pupa, and only then a butterfly.

I am figuratively

That's all, it's time to rename the topic "Patriotism in the preparation of entomological labels", not otherwise

I decided to fill it out like
this [attachmentid ()=117896]

all in Russian except gender / species, " who defined. vperv."

it seems to be the most optimal solution, what do you think?

This post was edited by Collector-07.08.2011 22: 13

For Alexey and not only: entomologists should not be expected to be as quick in mastering Russian as taxi drivers and merchants, because the incentives are completely different. Therefore, I fully understand the current need to supply foreign colleagues with the most natural "English" language for this purpose today. But the main thing should remain the toponymic indication in the language of the country of collection (this applies not only to the Russian Federation, but to any country), because entomology does not end with today's colleagues, other colleagues will come to the same material in years, and we cannot predict the future balance of power of languages, or rather there is nothing native toponymy. Of course, if a foreign entomologist is seriously working with our material, then at least he should learn Cyrillic letters; strongly encourage people who find it difficult to learn such a small thing for the sake of business – also not a blessing, but a necessary measure. The English transcription of Chinese toponyms on their labels is just as forced as for those who come to China from outside its borders (from the Russian Federation, for example). But there are many hieroglyphs and they are much more difficult to learn than our " sch " and "w". Of course, even our letters can be difficult, but certainly not for the most diligent foreigners. Such labels then remain, sometimes simply copied from our Latin letters, like the handwritten label "Dneankou" under the supposedly Crimean copy of Apollo (Nekrutenko, thank God, guessed that this was just a horse attempt to write our "Dzhankoy" in their font). The balance of interests has to be taken into account, language is not an end in itself, but a means of communication, but accuracy requires striving to preserve the original toponymy. And I think that the Russian entomologist will quite cope with our "sch", as the Chinese – with their own hieroglyphs. And they can transcribe and translate for each other for mutual convenience, it will not hurt anyone, as long as the original instruction is not lost.

Tradesmen and taxi drivers-okay, but do you remember the first puncture of the Soviet intelligence officer Abel (Fischer) on the first day of his illegal stay abroad? It was something like this. He had arrived in the country of introduction by train, with reliable fake documents, but the hour was early, and before moving to the turnout, he decided to find a bench somewhere and wait a little. The dawn streets are empty, except for a local mincing quickly and anxiously towards them. When he comes up with Abel, he asks conspiratorially: "Listen, do you know where you can take a piss here?": "Yes, go to that over there or that alley over there." My uncle, unbuttoning himself on the run, disappears into the alley, and Abel realizes that in the country of introduction he was addressed in Russian and answered in Russian, too. In the very first minutes of an illegal's life-and such opanki! He sits on a bench and waits to be arrested. I waited for several hours, didn't wait, spat and went to the turnout.

So for the Russian language, indeed, not everything is lost in this world. We don't want to mess it up ourselves...

it seems to be the most optimal solution, what do you think?

The most optimal solution is to leave this very "place for a puncture". And then the "geographical" label is so overloaded that it is unlikely that there will be a place to pierce it. After all, it will probably contain not only "region", but also a district, a locality (or other lower-level toponymic reference), and possible deviation and distance. Plus everything you've already specified...

This post was edited by A. J. Elez-07.08.2011 23: 17

"Who is an official official for the first time" is called "the author of the first description". Linnaeus and Company.

Collector, approx. so:

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Vasily, " MO " is either a cipher (which is prohibited by the rules) or an ambiguity (which is also prohibited by the rules). This cannot be considered a generally accepted abbreviation yet (unless the Ministry of Defense is meant). As "env." is more often abbreviated to "district", rather than "neighborhood" (which you had in mind). "D." in addresses often means a house, rather than a village (the latter is more correctly abbreviated " der."). Commas in the address are not a luxury. "Russia", "Linnaeus" and "Feoktistov" - no comments...

Vasily, " MO " is either a cipher (which is prohibited by the rules) or an ambiguity (which is also prohibited by the rules). This cannot be considered a generally accepted abbreviation yet (unless the Ministry of Defense is meant). As "env." is more often abbreviated to "district", rather than "neighborhood" (which you had in mind). "D." in addresses often means a house, rather than a village (the latter is more correctly abbreviated " der."). Commas in the address are not a luxury. "Russia", "Linnaeus" and "Feoktistov" - no comments...

Yes, this is a cliche (table) in Word that I have and is filled in as needed: I just made it up quickly now. Label size: 8x20mm. it turns out.

here's something like this

that's something like this

You need to learn more about geography, even though there are coordinates. The Voronezh Region is large and dates must be entered to the nearest day.

This post was edited by vasiliy-feoktistov - 08.08.2011 10: 10

You need to learn more about geography, even though there are coordinates. The Voronezh Region is large and dates must be entered to the nearest day.

I know, just at that time I didn't have a notebook yet, where I write notes,
but in more detail..in my opinion the coordinates are sufficient

and in more detail..in my opinion, the coordinates are enough

Coordinates are absolutely not enough: not everyone uses GPS at all, but no one has canceled the rules for creating labels. You need to specify the exact location of the nearest locality, and then the coordinates (if possible).

To Dmitrich: Great Britain is no longer great.

Really? But they didn't tell me about it

Coordinates are absolutely not enough: not everyone uses GPS at all, but no one has canceled the rules for creating labels. You need to specify the exact location of the nearest locality, and then the coordinates (if possible).

well e

Starting point from "Your Collection" (specially scanned now). Previously posted the entire book. Didn't help???

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So it is not yet known which language will be more understandable in 15-20 years, English or Russian.

If things go on like this - either English or china

Starting point from "Your Collection" (specially scanned now). Previously posted the entire book. Didn't help???

I read it! Well I can't
I have already signed so many, redo them, still time to waste

I read it! Well I can't      
I've already signed so many documents, redoing them is still a waste of time

Forget the word I CAN'T! It is necessary to correct blunders and everyone has to do it.

what should I rewrite all of them?

  
I've already signed so many documents, redoing them is still a waste of time

Oh, it's a pity that beetles don't run around with labels anymore.
This is the best option for you. The bug already signed runs. Pop it. He straightened his legs himself and jumped into the box! And if the beetles also fly home by themselves... So you don't need to waste any time at all. And you will be the most famous Collector.

Oh, it's a pity that beetles don't run around with labels anymore.
This is the best option for you. The bug already signed runs. Pop it. He straightened his legs himself and jumped into the box! And if the beetles also fly home by themselves... So you don't need to waste any time at all. And you will be the most famous Collector.